Maybe if he says it enough times they’ll leave. Or maybe he should enforce the law in his state.
Wonder if it would work to declare a state of emergency and mobilize the MN national guard to safeguard civilians? If they are already deployed can the president deploy them?
They’ve already been mobilized. They’re guarding the Whipple Concentration Camp.
Order them by threat of force
Anything else is just more posturing and god, we’ve seen so much posturing already
Or just hand over your voter rolls https://bsky.app/profile/chrismurphyct.bsky.social/post/3md7idhl3mc23
It is not within the authority of the Governor of the state to use force against federal agents.
These people pushing violence really seem to be happy with just throwing away everything about the country that we’re trying to save. These people are in lock step with the MAGA bots on the issue:
- Rules (only when I want them),
- Violence (excusable if the target is right),
- Democracy (They’re trying to steal it so lets throw it in the garbage before they can).
Don’t confuse a lot of upvotes with a popular opinion, it is trivial to make vote boosting bots on Lemmy.
If you are in the US, these people pushing this violent rhetoric are not on your side and are trying to push us into the same chaos as the MAGA forces.
You can have the national guard follow and chaperone ICE. There are no laws that say you must allow federal agents to break the law in front of you. They should be arrested when witnessing them violate the constitution.
Force only recognises force no? Newton.
LOL. you will lay face down in mud with the boots of an ICE on the back of your head and still think, “well, at least I upheld the dignity of Democracy!”.
GTFO with your “b-but both sides are bad!” garbage.
While the National Guard is prohibited from performing law enforcement on behalf of the President under the Posse Comitatus Act, the governor of the state they’re operating in can deputies them.for law enforcement.
He doesn’t need to wage war on ICE. He just needs them to be chaparroned by armed Nation Guard troops anywhere they go, and have them arrest ICE goons when they violate the law. If ICE gets proper judicial warrants and executes them lawfully, then there shouldn’t be any problems.
An important distinction on warrants is that an immigration judge cannot issue a judicial warrant because even though the word “judge” is in their title, they aren’t part of the judicial branch. They’re employees of the executive branch, so any warrants they hand out are administrative in nature and cannot legally be used to enter private property without consent.
While the National Guard is prohibited from performing law enforcement on behalf of the President under the Posse Comitatus Act, the governor of the state they’re operating in can deputies them.for law enforcement.
Yes.
He doesn’t need to wage war on ICE. He just needs them to be chaparroned by armed Nation Guard troops anywhere they go, and have them arrest ICE goons when they violate the law. If ICE gets proper judicial warrants and executes them lawfully, then there shouldn’t be any problems.
That isn’t what the person that I replied to was suggesting, nor what I was replying to.
If the Governor decided to “Order them by threat of force” to leave MN then he was be operating outside of his authority and would be ignored. If he attempted to use force against federal forces in an attempt to make them leave then he would be in armed rebellion against the US and would be arrested.
The only thing protecting him, the protestors, etc, is that they have not give Trump a reason to fabricate an excuse to use the Insurrection act that would survive a Federal court issuing a TRO. The protests have been peaceful (outside of a few ICE agents rioting with tear gas and less lethal munitions) and the public statements by officials have been measured so as to not allow them the slightest excuse that would stand up in court. The Trump admin’s only move here is to try to make inflammatory statements.
They don’t have any more ICE agents (and recruitment is drying up) that is why this is happening only in one place, this is everything they can muster. So they’re putting everything into one place to both punish MN people for voting against him and to create a violent reality TV show that keeps everyone tuned in instead of talking about the Epstein files, or Trump’s billion dollar profits from corruption, or the exploding cost of food, or the shitty foreign policy disaster that he’s created.
The protests and the terrible PR skills of the administration are showing effect. Go look at any reputable polling, Trump has always been unpopular outside of his base but now he is starting to lose support among his actual base. Right now, people are sickened by the attack and the government’s response blaming him owning a gun. 2nd Amendment supporters have typically been Trump supporters but they have broken with him because of the administration’s framing of ‘he had a gun and therefore deserved to die’. Even the NRA tweeted out against this framing.
Trump is tapped out, he’s hired every white supremacist and opportunist and only has a few thousand people to muster that will do the violence that he wants and even that is backfiring on him. He has been unable to fabricate other distractions (Greenland, Canada, Venezuela, etc) and has been incompetent in handling emerging events leading to even more backlash.
People framing this like this is our last chance and only violence or armed rebellion will save us are outside agitators or the useful idiots that they control. This framing is based on the ICE circus in MN and social media propaganda, not reality.
In reality, Trump is out of troops, out of support, dying in the polls (and possibly IRL) and is running out of allies, like MTG, as more Rs smell the blood in the water and jump ship. Every major public case in the courts have gone against him, he’s lost the VAST majority of other cases (source: https://www.lawfaremedia.org/projects-series/trials-of-the-trump-administration), his tariffs have pissed off the entire world and their response is targeted at his rich supporters (i.e. Jack Daniels distillery boycott).
The only thing that he can hope for is to find an excuse to invoke the Insurrection act so that it won’t be immediately blocked by a Federal Judge. Everyone that is here pushing for violence is trying to create the only out that Trump has left.
Trump isn’t all powerful, he’s playing the media game and has an army of bots from the various dictators around the world who want to see the US fail.
I’m sorry, but saving a democracy?
You can try and save the country from a civil war, maybe, but the US hasn’t been anywhere near a democracy for decades now. It’s just much more visible what it really is.
I’m not calling for violence, but the ilother side is violent and they’re not going to stop. Maga will eventually only listen to violence.
If you think that judges will make a difference then I can only tell you to get your head out of your ass, Maga politicians and organizations have been ignoring one court order after another, or get the supreme court to just say it’s fine.
I don’t know what it’ll take to fix this, but asking kindly will not suffice, that much is clear
If you think that judges will make a difference then I can only tell you to get your head out of your ass, Maga politicians and organizations have been ignoring one court order after another, or get the supreme court to just say it’s fine.
This is just nonsense and not based in reality.
Here is the list of every single case involving the Trump administration: https://www.lawfaremedia.org/projects-series/trials-of-the-trump-administration/tracking-trump-administration-litigation The vast majority of cases are losses and denied on appeal.
Are there still troops in California after the judge ordered them out? Is Kilmar Garcia still in CECOT after a judge ordered him returned? Has Mahmoud Khalil been deported despite a court order?
No, because the court orders are being followed. Yes, the US Justice Department lawyers do everything they can to avoid following them but they cannot tell a Judge no and the Judge is overseeing the case until their orders are followed.
You’re not arguing based on reality, you’re arguing based on social media optics.
I don’t know what it’ll take to fix this, but asking kindly will not suffice, that much is clear
“I’m not recommending violence, but nothing else will work”
Having an Impeachment trial, and blocking funding for DHS isn’t ‘asking nicely’ these are the powers that check the Executive branch in the US system of government.
If you don’t believe in that system of government then you’re no better than the alt-right fascists and are allied with enemies of the US.
there’s no question of authority here. you shoot someone you get arrested.
Another toothless message. What a joke. Trump is going to invoke the Insurrection Act regardless of what you do. At least protect your damn citizens from cold-blooded federal jackboots!
Using the cold-blooded state jackboots? Where’s the force that would side with protestors strongly enough to go up against ICE?
If they push hard enough the citizens of MN will engage in asymmetric warfare like every other occupied group. The IRA, Palestinians, Vietnamese, Iraqis, etc. It’s the ultimate way to deal with militarily superior occupying forces. I can see IEDs blowing these federal thugs to the moon.
Federal agents: “No.”
Your move, Walz. Your constituents are being murdered in the street. Are you going to grow a pair and actually do something? Or are you just gonna keep talking like a worthless fucking politician?
I nodded along with this comment, and then got thinking about the nation-state-military caliber funding that ICE was handed recently.
And, after a bit of mental breadth-first search of where that train of thought could have led, I was left with a frown thinking “this could get so much more bloody so quickly.”
Yeah, Walz, why aren’t you personally removing armed state military from the streets? Walz, why didn’t you start a revolution yet, Walz? Too much of a pussy, Walz? I almost stood up from my sofa, that’s how I am angry at you, Walz.
Cut power to their buildings and to the hotels they’re staying. Now that it’s super cold out. Threaten them with freezing. Then order a slow as fuck inquiry to find out why there is no power and clutch your pearls.
If you genuinely want to disrupt them, you can.
Otherwise STFU with the rhetorical posturing.
Lead or get out of the way. Enough.
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If he and the mayor really care, why don’t they use city police to enforce the laws ICE and CBP are violating on a daily basis? They may have federal immunity but they are committing state crimes in broad daylight like it’s going out of style. Arrest some criminals like you’re supposed to. Not an all-out war between police forces, just, you know, regular law enforcement.
Power to the motherfucking people
If he had balls he’d arrest them
Walz could call the national guard to protect the protesters
He called them to help the police. “With what?” is the obvious question.
Prventing ICE from speeding into a neighborhood, murdering bytanders and speeding off again with the whole of the narrative in their control. I’m guessing.
Effective: “Today I am calling for the immediate arrest and trial of agents involved in the murders and abuses of state citizens”
Ineffective: “please leave”
Did he say pretty please? That would be effective.
It’s time to your own militias for self defense Minnesota et al.
“Pwease weave. Pwetty pwease.”
Grow some fucking balls and DO something besides jack your massaging jaw, you useless old fuck.
I mean he called in the Minnesota National Guard.
…and then what?
Nothing. Because that’s all Democrats will ever be good for: theater.
At the time you made this comment he’d called in the MN guard… a day before.
Currently the guard is feeding protesters so IDK man, that’s actually pretty big.
No, it’s not lol, it’s completely inconsequential. They didn’t protect the protestor whose hand was blown off by ICE’s use of “less lethal” munitions this morning. I don’t give a fuck if they pass out donuts and do some PR segments, there’s no evidence to suggest they’re meaningfully on our side… yet. Especially after state police brutalized protestors at the site of Alex’s murder.
I’m eager to be wrong. I think it’s a vital turning point so I very, very, very much hope to be wrong. But I don’t see it yet.
Serious question, what would demonstrate they’re meaningfully on our side to you, but wouldn’t be a literal civil war? Because short of that, federal troops feeding protesters is a big deal.
Some places to start could be
- Following ICE wherever they go and documenting their conduct. Civilians are already doing this and Walz has requested that they do so, so having the military do at least what you’re expecting the citizens to do is literally the bare minimum.
- Warning citizens when ICE is approaching, perhaps even using state emergency warning systems. If this is considered protected First Amendment conduct for citizens, it may be for military as well. I’m not sure from a legal perspective, but they should be risking it to protect citizens. Especially since Trump constantly takes an “ask for forgiveness, not permission” approach.
- Put state resources behind the prosecution of Alex Pretti’s murderer. (It’s been intimated that this is being done via the BCA but I’m not seeing any actual indications of progress.)
- Put state resources behind enabling a general strike / eviction freeze / other economic benefits to both enable protest and prevent vulnerable immigrants from needing to go to work.
- Not fucking sending state police to brutalize protestors at the site of Alex Pretti’s murder.
I think those would all fall short of “a literal civil war”.
I see federal troops feeding protestors as an attempt to maintain the perception of the state as a legitimate authority without actually needing to take any meaningful action. “Look guys, they’re with us!”… except when the bullets / less-than-lethal projectiles start flying.
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Is a great thing, I hope they do this (though if they do follow through I suspect trump will order them to stop)
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Would unfortunately be a civil war thing - it’s not open conflict, but it would require the subversion of federal systems (the emergency warning systems) to actively sabotage federal troops. I don’t know about the free speech rights, but generally speaking the military has sharp restrictions on what counts as free speech.
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He was killed two days ago and the court hearing to attempt to ensure BCA has access to the site is ongoing as I write this so hopefully there will be progress soon!
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Another serious question (and setting aside the question of legality because who fuckin’ cares at this point), what resources should the state put out to support this? Having worked with several state governments, there’s not really “spare cash” floating around to enable this kind of unbelievable expenditure, so it’s somewhat limited to an eviction freeze (which is almost entirely out of the state’s control)
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Not really a national guard thing but fair enough. I’ve seen some limited vids from there but most of what I’ve seen was one violent interaction then the police fled, was there more than that? I’ve seen people say they came back that evening but I can’t find a good source for that.
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Walz is a typical democrat.
He talks a big game and has great bluster.
but when the cards hit the table, he rolls over, shows his belly and shits himself
He should have activated the national guard weeks ago. He should have had them on the streets everywhere that ICE was at, Following them where ever they went, with orders to intervene anytime they stepped out of line.
He should have been ordering every state law enforcement agency to follow ICE, and arrest them every time they abducted a child, every time they assaulted an innocent civilian, anytime they’ve murdered an innocent person.
but instead of doing anything useful and proactive to protect his state, he keeps going on twitter and begging “pwease mistur pwesident, stahp hwurting my pepulz. pretty pwease?”
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Walz is a Zionist. Getting Israel ahead is his game.
I don’t know why you think this is the secret that ends his career. Dems fail the purity tests of the type of people that actually care about that and voted Trump by not showing up. Or in even worse cases, went full horseshoe theory and actually voted Trump.
Refusing to vote for the dogs of a genocidal regime is less “purity test” and more “basic humanity”.
No, see, you were given a choice.
a) Reasonably tepid president’s vice president. No great achievements, but no strongly notable transgressions against the people of the country. Policies not actively progressive but not actively hostile. Supports Ukraine. Supports Israel. Runs on the platform of moderate politics.
b) Multiple times convicted felon, strongly suspected of being a pedophile and child trafficker. Catastrophic first term. Weak foreign policy in first term, already schmoozing up to military enemies of the country. Supports nothing but his own pocket.
How is that not a purity test? Even if you’re a normal person that is sternly anti-Israel, you have singled out one issue in which one candidate performs (probably, we don’t even know) worse than the other one. And still outperforms the other one on all other issues unless you’re a ten toes down white supremacist with the sole life goal to make sure people with a darker skin color suffer and a deeper pocket prosper. That’s what we call, say it with me, a purity test. Your refusal to go out and vote is complicity in the murder of Renee Good and Alex Pretti. Don’t preach to me about humanity, you’re probably not even from the US.
against the people of the country.
Thing is, I care about humanity, not just “the people of the country”. Therefore, “supports Israel” is a dealbreaker.
Supporting the existence of Israel is supporting genocide. I will never vote for someone with such blood on their hands. If you would, especially to maintain your own comfort and privilege, then your soul is compromised.
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Please do delete Lemmy, we don’t need liberal apologists here.
Hes not even a fuckin American. Just another foreign agent shit stirrer.
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Oh look, someone using their imaginary narrative of things no one said to try and derail the topic.
Gee, I wonder what group of people would have a vested interest in trying to derail this topic, by claiming people are calling for blood in the streets… while ICE is literally pouring gallons of blood in the street every day that they never seem to have a single critical comment on. 🤔
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Don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out
That’s the American way. Next they will SLAM the government and nothing will happen.
Walz said he spoke with President Trump’s chief of staff, Susie Wiles, twice this morning.
Chickenshit coward can’t even talk on the phone with Walz. What a traitorous cunt.
“First request was to get her people out of there, to get these federal agents out of there,” Walz said. “They were going to cause more chaos. And second call is, with no uncertain terms, that we will investigate this. We will not be stonewalled.”
The governor said he believes federal agencies “cannot be trusted to lead this investigation.”
“The state will handle it, period,” he said.
deport them. MN knows how to remove ice and snow from the roads. plows could be useful
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That’s a good way to get the military to start bombing US cities.
Look more closely at the comments. We’re getting overrun with people trying to start shit, many of whom are not even from here.
Because everyone thinks you’re being cowardly
Heh, try that on someone who actually gives a shit what internet randos think of them.
Minnesota, Minneapolis, and Tim Walz are holding the line. They are fantastic. The very best of us. I literally could not be more proud of them, and of us, right now.
You, on the other hand, got nothing but empty words, talking about cowardice from behind a pseudonym and a keyboard like this is a junior high popularity contest and you’re jealous of the other girl’s miniskirt.
Seriously, try it on someone else while I go watch the news and see how Minnesota is refusing to take the bait.
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