No, it’s not lol, it’s completely inconsequential. They didn’t protect the protestor whose hand was blown off by ICE’s use of “less lethal” munitions this morning. I don’t give a fuck if they pass out donuts and do some PR segments, there’s no evidence to suggest they’re meaningfully on our side… yet. Especially after state police brutalized protestors at the site of Alex’s murder.
I’m eager to be wrong. I think it’s a vital turning point so I very, very, very much hope to be wrong. But I don’t see it yet.
Serious question, what would demonstrate they’re meaningfully on our side to you, but wouldn’t be a literal civil war? Because short of that, federal troops feeding protesters is a big deal.
Following ICE wherever they go and documenting their conduct. Civilians are already doing this and Walz has requested that they do so, so having the military do at least what you’re expecting the citizens to do is literally the bare minimum.
Warning citizens when ICE is approaching, perhaps even using state emergency warning systems. If this is considered protected First Amendment conduct for citizens, it may be for military as well. I’m not sure from a legal perspective, but they should be risking it to protect citizens. Especially since Trump constantly takes an “ask for forgiveness, not permission” approach.
Put state resources behind the prosecution of Alex Pretti’s murderer. (It’s been intimated that this is being done via the BCA but I’m not seeing any actual indications of progress.)
Put state resources behind enabling a general strike / eviction freeze / other economic benefits to both enable protest and prevent vulnerable immigrants from needing to go to work.
Not fucking sending state police to brutalize protestors at the site of Alex Pretti’s murder.
I think those would all fall short of “a literal civil war”.
I see federal troops feeding protestors as an attempt to maintain the perception of the state as a legitimate authority without actually needing to take any meaningful action. “Look guys, they’re with us!”… except when the bullets / less-than-lethal projectiles start flying.
Is a great thing, I hope they do this (though if they do follow through I suspect trump will order them to stop)
Would unfortunately be a civil war thing - it’s not open conflict, but it would require the subversion of federal systems (the emergency warning systems) to actively sabotage federal troops. I don’t know about the free speech rights, but generally speaking the military has sharp restrictions on what counts as free speech.
Another serious question (and setting aside the question of legality because who fuckin’ cares at this point), what resources should the state put out to support this? Having worked with several state governments, there’s not really “spare cash” floating around to enable this kind of unbelievable expenditure, so it’s somewhat limited to an eviction freeze (which is almost entirely out of the state’s control)
Not really a national guard thing but fair enough. I’ve seen some limited vids from there but most of what I’ve seen was one violent interaction then the police fled, was there more than that? I’ve seen people say they came back that evening but I can’t find a good source for that.
I too see 1. as the unambiguous thing to do, follow ICE, record everything. Be a visible deterrent. I don’t think Trump has the right to order them to stop and I don’t think they are inclined to listen to Trump over the interests of their own community.
Though being around the question is what is the guard response to an event like the Pretti shooting would be if they were there documenting things… Being in that scenario with guardsmen might be impossible to both avoid conflict and provide an acceptable response. Guess we would have to hope that the inherent risk of escalation tempers the ICE people, but they haven’t exactly shown themselves to have that sort of restraint…
but when the cards hit the table, he rolls over, shows his belly and shits himself
He should have activated the national guard weeks ago. He should have had them on the streets everywhere that ICE was at, Following them where ever they went, with orders to intervene anytime they stepped out of line.
He should have been ordering every state law enforcement agency to follow ICE, and arrest them every time they abducted a child, every time they assaulted an innocent civilian, anytime they’ve murdered an innocent person.
but instead of doing anything useful and proactive to protect his state, he keeps going on twitter and begging “pwease mistur pwesident, stahp hwurting my pepulz. pretty pwease?”
I don’t know why you think this is the secret that ends his career. Dems fail the purity tests of the type of people that actually care about that and voted Trump by not showing up. Or in even worse cases, went full horseshoe theory and actually voted Trump.
a) Reasonably tepid president’s vice president. No great achievements, but no strongly notable transgressions against the people of the country. Policies not actively progressive but not actively hostile. Supports Ukraine. Supports Israel. Runs on the platform of moderate politics.
b) Multiple times convicted felon, strongly suspected of being a pedophile and child trafficker. Catastrophic first term. Weak foreign policy in first term, already schmoozing up to military enemies of the country. Supports nothing but his own pocket.
How is that not a purity test? Even if you’re a normal person that is sternly anti-Israel, you have singled out one issue in which one candidate performs (probably, we don’t even know) worse than the other one. And still outperforms the other one on all other issues unless you’re a ten toes down white supremacist with the sole life goal to make sure people with a darker skin color suffer and a deeper pocket prosper. That’s what we call, say it with me, a purity test. Your refusal to go out and vote is complicity in the murder of Renee Good and Alex Pretti. Don’t preach to me about humanity, you’re probably not even from the US.
Thing is, I care about humanity, not just “the people of the country”. Therefore, “supports Israel” is a dealbreaker.
Supporting the existence of Israel is supporting genocide. I will never vote for someone with such blood on their hands. If you would, especially to maintain your own comfort and privilege, then your soul is compromised.
Oh look, someone using their imaginary narrative of things no one said to try and derail the topic.
Gee, I wonder what group of people would have a vested interest in trying to derail this topic, by claiming people are calling for blood in the streets… while ICE is literally pouring gallons of blood in the street every day that they never seem to have a single critical comment on. 🤔
“Pwease weave. Pwetty pwease.”
Grow some fucking balls and DO something besides jack your massaging jaw, you useless old fuck.
I mean he called in the Minnesota National Guard.
…and then what?
Nothing. Because that’s all Democrats will ever be good for: theater.
At the time you made this comment he’d called in the MN guard… a day before.
Currently the guard is feeding protesters so IDK man, that’s actually pretty big.
No, it’s not lol, it’s completely inconsequential. They didn’t protect the protestor whose hand was blown off by ICE’s use of “less lethal” munitions this morning. I don’t give a fuck if they pass out donuts and do some PR segments, there’s no evidence to suggest they’re meaningfully on our side… yet. Especially after state police brutalized protestors at the site of Alex’s murder.
I’m eager to be wrong. I think it’s a vital turning point so I very, very, very much hope to be wrong. But I don’t see it yet.
Serious question, what would demonstrate they’re meaningfully on our side to you, but wouldn’t be a literal civil war? Because short of that, federal troops feeding protesters is a big deal.
Some places to start could be
I think those would all fall short of “a literal civil war”.
I see federal troops feeding protestors as an attempt to maintain the perception of the state as a legitimate authority without actually needing to take any meaningful action. “Look guys, they’re with us!”… except when the bullets / less-than-lethal projectiles start flying.
Is a great thing, I hope they do this (though if they do follow through I suspect trump will order them to stop)
Would unfortunately be a civil war thing - it’s not open conflict, but it would require the subversion of federal systems (the emergency warning systems) to actively sabotage federal troops. I don’t know about the free speech rights, but generally speaking the military has sharp restrictions on what counts as free speech.
He was killed two days ago and the court hearing to attempt to ensure BCA has access to the site is ongoing as I write this so hopefully there will be progress soon!
Another serious question (and setting aside the question of legality because who fuckin’ cares at this point), what resources should the state put out to support this? Having worked with several state governments, there’s not really “spare cash” floating around to enable this kind of unbelievable expenditure, so it’s somewhat limited to an eviction freeze (which is almost entirely out of the state’s control)
Not really a national guard thing but fair enough. I’ve seen some limited vids from there but most of what I’ve seen was one violent interaction then the police fled, was there more than that? I’ve seen people say they came back that evening but I can’t find a good source for that.
I too see 1. as the unambiguous thing to do, follow ICE, record everything. Be a visible deterrent. I don’t think Trump has the right to order them to stop and I don’t think they are inclined to listen to Trump over the interests of their own community.
Though being around the question is what is the guard response to an event like the Pretti shooting would be if they were there documenting things… Being in that scenario with guardsmen might be impossible to both avoid conflict and provide an acceptable response. Guess we would have to hope that the inherent risk of escalation tempers the ICE people, but they haven’t exactly shown themselves to have that sort of restraint…
Walz is a typical democrat.
He talks a big game and has great bluster.
but when the cards hit the table, he rolls over, shows his belly and shits himself
He should have activated the national guard weeks ago. He should have had them on the streets everywhere that ICE was at, Following them where ever they went, with orders to intervene anytime they stepped out of line.
He should have been ordering every state law enforcement agency to follow ICE, and arrest them every time they abducted a child, every time they assaulted an innocent civilian, anytime they’ve murdered an innocent person.
but instead of doing anything useful and proactive to protect his state, he keeps going on twitter and begging “pwease mistur pwesident, stahp hwurting my pepulz. pretty pwease?”
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Walz is a Zionist. Getting Israel ahead is his game.
I don’t know why you think this is the secret that ends his career. Dems fail the purity tests of the type of people that actually care about that and voted Trump by not showing up. Or in even worse cases, went full horseshoe theory and actually voted Trump.
Refusing to vote for the dogs of a genocidal regime is less “purity test” and more “basic humanity”.
No, see, you were given a choice.
a) Reasonably tepid president’s vice president. No great achievements, but no strongly notable transgressions against the people of the country. Policies not actively progressive but not actively hostile. Supports Ukraine. Supports Israel. Runs on the platform of moderate politics.
b) Multiple times convicted felon, strongly suspected of being a pedophile and child trafficker. Catastrophic first term. Weak foreign policy in first term, already schmoozing up to military enemies of the country. Supports nothing but his own pocket.
How is that not a purity test? Even if you’re a normal person that is sternly anti-Israel, you have singled out one issue in which one candidate performs (probably, we don’t even know) worse than the other one. And still outperforms the other one on all other issues unless you’re a ten toes down white supremacist with the sole life goal to make sure people with a darker skin color suffer and a deeper pocket prosper. That’s what we call, say it with me, a purity test. Your refusal to go out and vote is complicity in the murder of Renee Good and Alex Pretti. Don’t preach to me about humanity, you’re probably not even from the US.
Thing is, I care about humanity, not just “the people of the country”. Therefore, “supports Israel” is a dealbreaker.
Supporting the existence of Israel is supporting genocide. I will never vote for someone with such blood on their hands. If you would, especially to maintain your own comfort and privilege, then your soul is compromised.
But “supports Russia” is fine I suppose?
Lots of humanity in “child sex trafficker”, “pedophile”, “rapist”, right?
Delusional. Stop pretending you care about humanity. You care about this one specific issue.
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Oh look, someone using their imaginary narrative of things no one said to try and derail the topic.
Gee, I wonder what group of people would have a vested interest in trying to derail this topic, by claiming people are calling for blood in the streets… while ICE is literally pouring gallons of blood in the street every day that they never seem to have a single critical comment on. 🤔
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Please do delete Lemmy, we don’t need liberal apologists here.
Hes not even a fuckin American. Just another foreign agent shit stirrer.
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Don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out
That’s the American way. Next they will SLAM the government and nothing will happen.