- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
You must log in or register to comment.
In sum, these guys at EAST got the Greenwald limit elevated in their tokamak, which indirectly influences the Lawson criterion: nTTau, density * time at said density * plasma energy released. Lawson is the master finish line for measuring whether a fusion system can actually make more power than it consumes.
To date, when you cross the Greenwald limit, the man/woman in the operators seat should expect the plasma inside the device to become uncontrollable, hurting the reactor by touching the walls or instruments inside, a so-called “disruption”. Only a few topologies like the stellerator can exceed the limit, and so far, only by 5x.
But here we have a way to exceed the limit in the much more researched tokamak. This research has positive impact for all but the weirdest/niche fusion devices.
Artificial sun rising from the EAST? These guys know how to name things.
I really hate how so many of these articles feel like they need to dumb it down with this “artificial sun” imagery. It feels so condescending. I’d rather learn more about the latest progress with nuclear fusion
articles such as this one usually are optimized for their audience, you just aren’t the audience. that’s ok. I’m rarely the audience either :) a quick search should give you what you’re looking for https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.adz3040
Cool, thanks. So much more readable
Most Americans read at or below a 6th grade level
article didn’t say anything. How does denser plasma achieve higher temperatures or other benefits? What advances did their denser plasma produce?
Right. where’s the actual content, the wording not treating us like idiots? What is the actual improvement?
Plasma is made from basicly over charging a gas with electrons the gas getting all pissy about having those electrons and starts dumping them. something do with elements wanting stability. In that process you get alot of heat out put. Now f you make it more dense I would conclude simply, you now have more ionized atoms in the plasma stream, meaning your plasma will be hotter if the stream will be the same size or if the plasma stream is shrunk but has the same number of ionized gas atoms, you have the same heat out put but in a smaller stream.
You’re having a space characters infestation, you should do something about that.
?
I generally agree that science reporting treats everyone like children, but I really don’t have a problem with this analogy. Stars are the only naturally occurring fusion we have to observe and compare it to. To me that makes sense.
Sure… but the metaphor glosses over the fact that they haven’t really told us anything of interest. It SOUNDS good, but there’s no way to tell how significant it actually is.
Fusion breakthroughs have sounded good since the 90s, but we’re still the proverbial 10 years away from anything useful.
I’m not a fan of China (government)… at all. But when I check all the technological breakthrough they are getting in these last years while the US was inflating his fucking ai-bubble. Objectively, they are getting so far ahead is not even funny. At least Europe is on a good track themself.
I’m no China expert but I lived In South China for a while between 2016 and 2024. The Chinese people I know are mostly hardworking, very motivated to succeed, and well capitalized. In their major cities you might be surprised to learn normal guys who earn half what you do are living a higher quality of life than you are, in terms of access to technology.
Their government is no doubt using uncouth methods to give their country unfair advantages. They don’t play well with others.
But holy shit there is one thing this Chinese government is doing well: effectively driving growth with targeted investments in the economy. They have been focused on that one mission consistently for a long time.
While democracies fuck around trying to decide if they should tax themselves to build public transportation, China installs 10 new ultrafast subway lines in just a few years in every big city. Covers the country in a network of high-speed rail. Drives the price of shipping goods around the country to almost nothing.
A kind of monoparty like China has is very likely a net negative when we look at world history, but for moments of time, if it’s the right one, amazing things can happen.
One thing I’ve been impressed with China for is moving towards greener technologies. They’re a leader in solar, their EV’s are apparently very good (not that I can get one here to verify that), and they’re pretty dogged in their pursuit of nuclear energy.
Meanwhile USA is apparently still in “let’s overturn regimes and take over other countries for the oil companies” mode
Hey, Americans are hard working too. Some work 3 jobs just to make ends meet.
The US government threatens other countries with tariffs and sanctions to give American companies unfair advantage. Is that not using unclouth methods?
Americans are hardworking too, but the American government is not actively working to support those hardworking Americans, which is the difference… the average American is working their ass off to earn less than ever to add wealth to the small percentage of ultra wealthy in power here. There are sanctions, tarriffs, and subsidies here, but the vast majority of them benefit the top of the pyramid, while leaving the majority to struggle.
The US government does everything in its power to make the wealthy even more wealthy. But hey, worker empowerment is communism.
Party’s don’t have to be part of democracy though. Nonpartisan democracy might more achievable for China than the west currently as the size of their single party continues to grow. Though I kinda doubt there is a lot of appetite for it. I’m a firm believer in democracy but it’s hard to look at the hyper polarization of today’s parties as beneficial in any way. Especially in the simple two party American system.
tax billionaires out of existence and the polarization will solve itself in short order
Yeah I suspect that’s right.
The overwhelming majority of their so called breakthroughs are just media fluff pieces though. Their sources are more and more often AI generated studies and their supposed advancements aren‘t going anywhere a lot of the time. By the time people start asking questions and want to know more details they have already prepared another story for you to be impressed by. It‘s shock and awe.
I’ve been seeing articles like these for the past at least 10 years, it is always “New China brrakthrough, can make drinkable water from enriched uranium” or some shit. It is never scalable, sustainable, or usable, and is never really widely, used or adopted. It is always technology, pharmaceutics, construction, or energy related.
They like to fake their image to the world and have been trying for very long. The only thing they succeeded at larger scale is oppresion, tracking of people, and selling knockoffs. Of course, mass manufacturing cannot be omitted.
China is now the world leader in science by most metrics (largest proportion of the top 1% most cited papers, most publications to prestigious journals, etc). It makes sense, with their high population and their government willing to fund research. I’m guessing their culture is much less anti-intellectual than the West too, especially the US.
Yea they are probably quite ahead in about %80 of critical tech. Not only that but they also seem to be investing quite alot in sustainable tech, public transport tech, medicine etc. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if center of attraction for science shifts from US to China in near future.
It already has. The West doesn’t like to advertise that though.
Given all the cuts to science, deportation of scientists, and blocking student researchersin the past year alone, I’d claim the US deserves half the credit for China’s impending science ascendancy
We’re not losing the competition, we’re throwing a tantrum and scattering the game pieces …… somehow thinking that’s the same as winning
*yeah, not yea or nay. It isn’t a vote.
If all those stories from China from the last decade are true then science has already moved to China long ago. But it hasn‘t. Really makes you think, doesn‘t it?
Not sure, even like ten years ago when I was doing my PhD lots of students in prominent US universities like Carnegie Mellon were going to China to intern in HEP colliders.
Thats the thing that truly pisses me off about the US govt right now.
Ok, China is doing all these things and we’re losing our advantage? Do what we did during the space race and pump cash into innovation, science, and research.
But noooo we do the polar opposite and also drive scientists out of the country because they can get funding elsewhere.
Hey, at least they’ve got evangelism down to a science. I’m sure militant devotion to [the parts they like from] the Bible will pay back dividends down the road. Who needs the disciplined and organized pursuit of modern science in earnest when some old book written by long-dead humans claiming to speak for a supreme being says it has all the answers (many of which involve smite-based solutions)?
Do what we did during the space race and pump cash into innovation, science, and research.
Oh they are. For AI. Instead of scrambling to Fusion, they’re putting the money into generating nudes of celebrities.
and kids. Look at grok
At leas we won’t have to repect their patent…
Whoever develops fusion will be in the history books forever. I think that’s what they’re going for.
Chinese government is much better than the US government
Sure, if you like to compare corrupt, totalitarian states, have fun. Don’t forget russia.
People of the world including Europe, South America, middle East and Asia feel safer from Russia and China than America.
Forgetting Ukraine?
You’re more likely to lose Greenland to America than Ukraine to Russia. Ukraine isn’t even part of the EU and it is a former USSR territory.
That would be attacking EU citizens. Bullies don’t like difficult targets.
If you look at broad based EU markets vs the S&P over the last year they grew about twice the rate.
You don’t have to like the government, but they’re the sole reason China is slowly starting to take the lead in science and engineering. These are the fruits of marxism-leninism, whether you like it or not.
China is not Marxist-leninist lmao. They have a market economy.
State capitalism is not the same as Marxism.
Of course they are led by a marxist-leninist vanguard party. Just because they are leading a state owned market economy in order to build up their productive forces so they can counteract the power of US hegemony/imperialism, doesn’t mean they aren’t doing socialist state building.
No, they aren’t Marxist-leninist.
There’s no overthrowing of capitalism. China is capitalist as fuck.
Socialism is not “when the government does things”.
Socialism is a transition period between capitalism (and other modes of production that came before it) towards communism. Socialism even by Lenin’s and Marx’s words is a period riddled with contradictions. The state’s role is to work towards communism. China is applying marxism-leninism to its context and is doing amazing while at it. Strengthening the productive forces as to combat imperialism is the way to go and China knows it. China doesn’t need western ultra-lefts living at the tit of the empire to tell it what it has to do to ensure the survival of its sovereign state for the betterment of the working class’s material conditions.
Only 75 more years to go!
Practical power production through nuclear fusion still requires significant developments for it to be realised at scale, though several startups are already planning to deliver it within the next few years.
US-based Helion Energy secured the world’s first purchase agreement for nuclear fusion energy in 2023, promising to provide 50MW of fusion power to Microsoft by 2028.
I mean, time will tell. But that seems a bit sooner than 2100.
Lol any year now!
ha hahahahaahaaaa… oh boy… you techno utopians are funny. Maybe build a Space Elevator out of 3D printed AI Bitcoins and run a fusion reactor at the Lagrange point? Privately! On the Moon! To colonize Mars and mine the asteroids! Become a multi star species!
OK, time will tell. How about I save you the wait: nothing will happen. At all.
you techno utopians are funny.
I remember hearing this about solar power ten years ago. And electric cars. And cloud computing, even.
It was never going to be economically viable. Always ten years away from viability. Not competitive with whatever the industry leader was at the time.
Really putting all your chips on “nothing ever changes”
To be fair there was and is huge push back against EVs, the US is setting itself back a couple centuries just to not admit it is viable.
Dude, 10 years ago was 2016… We’ve had affordable, consumer grade solar since the 90s at least. I don’t think people were questioning the viability of solar in 2016.
We’ve had affordable, consumer grade solar since the 90s at least.
I’d hardly call the 1998 average of $12/W affordable. It was possible, but not practical.
I don’t think people were questioning the viability of solar in 2016.
Even in the mid-'10s, solar instillation were something of a luxury and - thanks to the high cost of batteries - only practical for deferring daytime electricity consumption. The root of the Solyndra scandal was Obama pushing a domestic solar manufacturer as an alternative to Chinese solar imports (which were, themselves, far more expensive than they should be thanks to steep US tarriffs imposed in 2014)
I don’t think anyone was questioning solar viability. But we were still talking about break-even prices on a 5-10 year horizon, heavily predicated on electricity costs outpacing inflation. As a hedge against periodic brownouts or price spikes during a heat wave, it was useful. Now the materials are a third the price and the number of installers has surged to accommodate rising demand. It’s just a much better deal.
You’re so dense you could fuse hydrogen.
What a low quality joke. The humor was bad too.
It is pretty easy to point out how long we have been researching fusion. That said, few of the skeptics will highlight just what an explosion of private capital we have seen in recent years and how different that is to previous decades. They will not show you the previous times in history when we have seen similar patterns.
Sure this capital is speculative. And most of them will have picked the wrong winner. But history tells us that this is what it looks like before a technology succeeds. Not 30 years before. More like 10. Which means saying 5 is ambitious but not exactly crazy.
Fusion does not belong in your list. First, some of them exist. You can buy a 3D printer with bitcoins. Of those that don’t, none has more than perhaps one resource unconstrained backer. Not a lot of people think we are colonizing Mars anytime soon. Fusion has billions of dollars of private capital chasing it as this point.
The situation may be closer to Quantum Computing than your examples. And I would say there are more physical unknowns in quantum computing. Because we do not have a quantum computer we can see in the sky everyday.
Your list looks funny in another way. Did you know that a company just launched a solar power satellite to do AI in orbit. It is up there and operational. They want to build a solar powered AI data-center in space. Whether you back such and idea or not, you cannot say something is impossible that has already been done.
And sometimes things work out differently than intended. For example, the technology developed or fusion stelerators is being use for drilling. One use may be to drill geothermal power vents. Who knows, maybe fusion power research will inadvertently make geothermal so cheap that fusion reactors no longer make economic sense.
How about: figuratively tilting at windmills would have generated more net energy than fusion research.
Unlike this captain positivity’s social life, fusion is making some sizable strides forward in short order.
I design diagnostics going into systems like these, there’s a lot of positive news coming our way.
Helion’s gonna have some problems though.
Higher density, yes, but at the cost of lower temperatures. So not as good. Nice but old new. With painfullll advertisement.
Through a new process called plasma-wall self organisation, the CAS researchers were able to keep the plasma stable at unprecedented density levels.
The latest breakthrough was detailed in the journal : Science Advances (https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.adz3040 )in a study titled ‘Accessing the density-free regime with ECRH-assisted ohmic start-up on EAST’.
without leaving behind hazardous waste
By volume blanket reprocessing and neutron activated vessel components create more hazardous waste than fission could dream of (not including the nightmare of on site fuel reprocessing for breeders that are similarly pie in the sky)
