If you’re anything like my parents, you probably wouldn’t even understand most of the content that floods my social media, no matter how hard I try to avoid it.
Here’s a recent example from Instagram: “Do y’all females ever tell ur homegirls ‘Sis chill you letting too many dudes hit?’” Essentially, that means: “Women – do you ever tell your girlfriends that they’re whores and need to stop letting so many guys fuck them?” The reel, posted by a 19-year-old man, appeared on my Instagram feed without me wanting to see it, or ever interacting with any other similar content. The comments that followed were pure misogyny. “Women see body count as a leaderboard and they try to outdo each other,” was one of them. Translation: all women are competitively promiscuous.
Consider the use of the word “female” in these posts. It is not a neutral term here, it is a term of abuse. It’s used by teenage boys to degrade us and equate us to animals. Boys are never described as “males”, but girls are always “females” – the equivalent of sows or calves, creatures that are less than human. We’re also “thots” (whores), “community pussy” and “bops”. “Bop” stands for “been over passed” and is a derogatory term used by boys to refer to a girl they’ve decided has been “passed around” or had too much sex. Sexual equality has ceased to exist online. It’s absolutely fine for boys to have sex, but when girls do, they are called worthless and referred to as objects. “When community pussy tries to insult me, I just want to beat that bitch up.” That’s a message I saw on TikTok.
I’m a 15-year-old schoolgirl and like most teenagers I spend a fair portion of my spare time on social media, often scrolling through short-form videos on apps such as Instagram or TikTok. All of my friends use those apps, and many spend multiple hours a day on them. I actively try to avoid online misogyny, but I am met with it incessantly whenever I open my mainstream social media apps. It only takes a few minutes before there’s subtle or overt misogyny, such as comment sections on a girl’s post filled with remarks about her body, videos made by men or boys captioned with a degrading joke, and even topics such as domestic violence or rape, trivialised and laughed about.
Delete TikTok and Instagram for starters.
- Article violates Rule #1 §1. Why is it still here?
- This article looks like it’s has a sublimal message to justify ID uploading (just read the last paragraph).
I think this has always been a problem in many of the online social spaces.
Forums, xbox live, all the way back since the Internet became a common service.
The parents need to be more involved in regulating kids access to internet, socials and otherwise, and they can make choices based on what they see.
Absentee parenting, at least in the digital realm is the problem on both sides of this issue.
I read the article and found it poignant and interesting.
That said, why am I seeing this on !world@lemmy.world ? It is not about anywhere else in the world specifically and it is not even news.
I know that in the rules it says only opinion pieces are potentially removed, but the fact that this “needs” to be published here makes the problem two-fold:
- it creates noise in the community where I would like to see news from anywhere else in the world than the US.
- it means that who posted it here thinks there is no other community where this actually would fit? Looking at the crossposts the other 2 communities (Technology and WomensStuff) seem way more fitting.
Putting everything everywhere doesn’t help communities grow. It just generates noise.
feeling disheartened and unhappy about being a girl. When nearly every comments section on a video of a girl my age is filled with disgusting and objectifying comments about her body from boys, it causes me to feel deeply uncomfortable in my own body, and compare myself to her
this hits home for me. I have a near 14 year old daughter and this is the struggle I see with her constantly.
It’s not that she’s particularly non-binary/trans/androgynous, it’s that she’s ashamed/embarrassed to be a girl or be perceived as one. She still likes many traditional feminine things, (ie hair/nails/makeup, romance novels, cutesy characters, etc), and she has no real desire for any kind of masculine interests…
It’s as though being a woman is inferior. It’s “girly”. And that’s what is being internalized. And part of that, I think, is also the culture’s post-ironic loathing for authenticity. Ala, being passionate or earnestly enjoying something is seen as being “cringe”. So, being a girl, who likes girly things, is cringe.
I think both of these things ratchet the internalized misogyny. With the former being what turns the ratchet.
the internet is not a daycare for children.
if you don’t have the skin to be online, don’t be online.
it’s like walking into a biker bar and complaining about the loud music, smoke and lack of healthy food.
if you don’t have the skin to be online, don’t be online.
yeah no how about we don’t build rapey applications then entice kids to use them?
STOP MAKING EXCUSES, THEY BUILT A BIKER BAR NEXT TO A ELEMENTARY SCHOOL AND ADVERTISE $2 JELLO SHOTS FOR 8TH GRADERS
fucking gross
The complaint here is that the culture we live in is so deeply misogynist that it causes even young women deep emotional pain.
Maybe pick up on that message and show you want to make the world a better place for the women who are part of your life.
you’re right, and when I see misogyny I speak up against it.
the problem here is that the article wants you to treat the symptom and not the illness.
the symptom is systemic misogyny. the problem is poor ethics and morals when raising our kids.
teach a child to treat others with understanding and acceptance regardless of who or what they are.
when they’re no longer children, shame them publicly.
it’s nigh impossible to do that on the internet without losing the basis of the freedom of speech the internet affords.
stop treating misogyny as the problem, and treat it as the symptom and things will improve over time.
holy shit these comments
lemmy users stop being individualist-brained, victim-blaming misogynists challenge: IMPOSSIBLE
you don’t stop misogyny by just ignoring it you twats, and hot take, mainstream social media being filled with nothing but privileged assholes being bigots (because all the good people were told to just go somewhere else 😇) is not good, actually!
Way I see it there are two productive paths to take here:
- Start trying to convince women that privacy does in fact matter. Use examples like the menstruation tracking apps potentially being used to identify abortions to illustrate this point.
- Try to relate to the men here on Lemmy and find a way to cooperate. You’ve got a largely fresh population of men here who don’t actually hate women, but have spent years in education being told they are dangerous rapists waiting to happen, or were treated as defective women by their teachers. They need good male role models and women who will treat them with respect, so that they can climb out of the pit without leaving the better parts of themselves behind.
An utterly unproductive use of your time would be trying to fight misogyny on oligarch-owned platforms. You will never win because they find this content useful, as it divides workers and wastes their time and social energy. Just get out, and help others do it too.
I mean this is why I stopped using social media 10 years ago. Bunch of nonsense drivel, everyday.
I’m not victim blaming, this shit shouldn’t happen, but if you are on a platform and that platform has shit moderation and you keep seeing content you don’t like, well, maybe you should leave that platform? I mean this is why we all left reddit, right?
If I walk into a wall once, then it’s an accident. If I keep walking into it, then I’m just stupid.
Genuine question: What do you categorise this comment as, other than you using social media?
I don’t consider Lemmy or other message style boards as social media.
We aren’t posting pictures of ourselves or posting updates of our lives on here. We don’t use our real names(or I hope we don’t).
Please define social media for me, because it seems like everyone’s take on it is “a website where you interact with others”, which is way too broad and I would say that applies to the entire internet then, which is a slippery slope.
*Edit, another post linked the “Social Graph” which I think encapsulates what social media is vs. what it is not.
No. All walls should be padded because we assume everyone is going to walk into them…
So suicide, then? That’s your suggestion?
Keep walking into that wall bud.
That’s not what they said at all.
I’ve been a social media moderator and it’s an awful, thankless, volunteer job. And I think objectively we kept our community very tightly focused on our narrow topic and civil. But we’d have never gotten to that point without a ton of help from the community itself. We outlined our vision and had clear, reasonable guidelines, so it was very easy to determine if something was against the rules to report.
But this was a special interest subreddit, and it was a constant battle. I made sure that every ruling and interaction I made had thoughtful intent. I had to step down because it was making me legitimately depressed.
I could never fault a moderator for being overwhelmed, especially for a community as chaotic as instagram. For these large, general purpose communities, it’s impossible to police directly. It truly takes the whole community to enforce and report bad behavior.
So no, you shouldn’t blame the victims, but you have to understand it’s a massive systemic problem with no easy solution. The best advice you can give really is “Take care of yourself, and avoid problematic communities.”
holy shit these comments
Lemmy is no better than reddit and other large platforms broadly when it comes to being an insular community of tech-focused young guys with horrific sexual insecurity.
Despite the wallpaper that it’s supposed to be further left than other sites, just about every online community is going to have a large share of “incel adjacent” shut-ins, as they are the segment most likely to keep a forum or website active. I’ve seen all the same rotten sentiments across Lemmy about women as I’ve seen deep in the trenches of the gender-wars during gamergate, it’s just usually softened with some disclaimer.
a large share of “incel adjacent” shut-ins, as they are the segment most likely to keep a forum or website active
“But not me, I’m different even though I’m here too!”
This user:
Lol proves my point.
Top three read article btw. Shilled by the same people who will soon have a track of you everywhere you do or go. You won’t even have a permission to fart without paying the fine.
15- y old girl. Most likely written by a 40 y old who can’t understand how parenting works. If you are a failure it doesn’t mean the rest of population now needs to be enforced in id links and checks and give away their right to privacy. Fucking dumbasses
Yeah, “just stop using social media” is an insanely stupid take that misses the point so hard it makes you wonder how someone distorted their perception so hard that they can even react that way.
“Stop using social media” is literally the only real solution because oligarchs will never again risk letting us actually connect with each other. You stay on “social” media and you will just be getting run in circles by engagement algorithms and bots.
You cannot save Facebook, Instagram, X, or Reddit because their owners will not allow you to.
No, it’s not. It might seem impossible for society to improve, but that is the solution, and talking about it without telling people to just avoid certain avenues is the only way to that end.
Consider the use of the word “female” in these posts. It is not a neutral term here, it is a term of abuse. It’s used by teenage boys to degrade us and equate us to animals. Boys are never described as “males”, but girls are always “females” – the equivalent of sows or calves, creatures that are less than human.
Erm… Alpha male? Beta male? Sigma male? Lean six ligma male?
How often do you see or hear “male” used without any of the descriptors attached in casual contexts?
Describing guys with bullshit Greek-derived “personality type” adjectives still at least acknowledges they are human with some kind of personality, even if you’re using one of the negative ones. And a few of them are even considered positive descriptors.
But the common use of the word “female” in informal contexts, without any other descriptors attached, does exactly what the article author says it does and isn’t nearly as pervasive for men or boys.
How often do you see or hear “male” used without any of the descriptors attached in casual contexts?
Honestly, only in the context of plugs, sockets & input/output cables in nerd circles, or in wildlife documentaries when describing animals in nature, to the point where I cannot read the word without hearing it in David Attenborough’s voice.
That’s besides the point though. I gave an example of men referring to themselves as males. If you couldn’t already tell by my use of “lean six ligma”, I’m kinda taking the piss out of the manosphere and its influencers like Andrew Tate.
But the common use of the word “female” in informal contexts, without any other descriptors attached, does exactly what the article author says it does and isn’t nearly as pervasive for men or boys.
TIL that Strong Bad is a misogynist.
This is the earliest example online I can find of a woman being referred to as a female, dating back to 2003. And it was literally from a Flash animated web series 23 years ago where the word was deliberately used as a rhyme to “email.”
It’s a weird term to use other than “woman” or even “girl” (but apparently that’s problematic now, even though it’s everywhere in pop music.) But honestly the red pill, incel and MGTOW circles have come up with a whole lot worse which I won’t even repeat here.
Using social media has ruined my self-esteem and my relation to being a girl in this world, and nearly every day I feel hatred towards my gender, my appearance, or even teenage boys as a category. The misogyny I see from boys my age online, which is echoed in real life too, has made me grow resentful and bitter towards them, as much as I try to avoid it. As wrong as it is, I persistently find myself considering if there are truly any boys out there who are not misogynistic to some extent, and have even questioned whether I can find love in the future because of this. I understand that boys are victims of harmful content, as well as perpetrators of online misogyny – they’re growing up learning how to do this from the adults who post misogynistic videos first. But even so, I feel such a strong divide now between girls and boys in my generation, especially when the way they talk about us in real life mirrors the way they do on the internet.
That’s fucked up.
That level of misogyny is definitely learned, but it’s not just her age group. I’m floored by (for example) some comments my Dad makes, a “quiet, respectful, classy” type guy who’s never had a Facebook or Insta, who’d you’d never expect to hear insults from. And it’s definitely worse after he watches Fox News… that shit is like a drug.
My school “friends” dropped my jaw, sometimes. They got a lot from their parents, but social media (Faceboook back then) absolutely made it worse.
Even here on Lemmy, the disrespect or casual sexism from commenters sometimes makes me want to throw up. Not that I’m a particularly standup guy or anything, but the longer I live, the more I wonder “the fuck happened to my sex?” I certainly can’t critique this girl for wondering the same thing.
Abhorrent to hear such a young person having to deal with this. It gets easier as you grow older, but it never stops being a vile state of things. Nobody should have to grow ‘thick skin’ to just participate, as wonderful aspects of their personality can die with it.
The gut reaction is to point to the easy and straightforward option, to just leave. But in the end this doesn’t solve anything. This is exactly how many safe spaces die, on top of it blaming victims. Once abusers are let in and tolerated, the victims will start leaving if they can. And eventually, the space is no longer that of the victims, but that of the abusers. This happens with nazis at a bar, smokers at restaurants, assholes on the road, unruly people in the train. It leads to a society where everyone nice just sits at home because that’s ultimately the last safe place left.
The hard truth is that the group that doesn’t take a stand and accepts in the abusers, is the only place we can look at for a solution. But there’s no easy way to get to them often. If they let it get this far, it’s essentially pointless. (The big social media platforms for sure). I think the only real alternative is to build alternative safe places. Reach out to friends and other victims. Let them know there is another place where they can actually feel safe. But it will be hard and grueling. At first it might seem like you are alone, that nobody shares your grievances. But it takes time. Years even. You might get assholes trying to get in anyways, that have to be harshly rejected to keep the spirit alive. You might get sabotaged from outside. It’s tough - but as far as solutions go, it’s a real one.
I consider Lemmy one of these places. And I think it’s very important for anyone to realize they’re in a community built on those grounds. It must always be protected with full force. From the smallest friend group, to the biggest of governments. Even when that’s hard to do.
I went into a bar and there were people drinking alcohol. I went to Lemmy forums and had a nice time. No one told the author that the environment influences the behavior? Has someone convinced the author these platforms aren’t predatory in LITERALLY every single way? Culture fail. Corporate win.
This is the most persuasive argument for restricting social media to adult use only that I’ve ever heard. Can’t even imagine how damaging this kind of shit is do a developing mind.
Edit: some places have restricted it to age 16, great- but honestly 18+ would be ideal
Beginning to wonder if these attempts to push for age restriction are a concerted effort by organizations like Palantir using children to get people buy into it.
Hard to not make the link after subpoenas were issued to those critical of the US administration on reddit.
Would make it much easier to make people fear speaking out against their government on social media if IDs were required, and the government they are under is actively hostile.
That seems to be the end goal with think of the children being an easy entry point.
Okay, so tell that to the parents. It is their responsibility.
You can’t solve this problem by restricting access for teenagers. They find a way to circumvent the restrictions as they always found a way to do the things they want, as harmful as they might be. Also toxic behaviour on social media is not a teenager issue but a men issue and should be treated as such.
I have been online since the 90s in mostly gaming spaces. Misogyny and racism feels like the default state.
Spaces that are able to rise out of that are exceptional.
I don’t understand. Is she posting with her real name and photo? If so, her parents should be in jail. That’s mindless. There are billions of people online and millions of them are going to be unhinged assholes and lunatics. WTF!
What crime have the parents committed?
Letting their kids go on the Internet. Get the brats out of here.
What country are you from, where kids who are 15 are forbidden from free social media apps?
It’s not illegal but it should be and the parents should be the ones responsible. This article is a prime example of why it should be illegal.
The algorithms in these social media services don’t care about you actually wanting to watch the video or see the content in general, instead they hyperfixate on if you took 0.02 seconds longer before scrolling to the next one compared to the previous scrolls, to determine what should be shown.
For example, if your interests are exclusively in random gadgets and trinkets for example, but then it shows you a video of an onlyfans promotion, you may accidentally pause in confusion, then scroll, unknowingly triggering the algorithm to keep showing you onlyfans promotions despite you not wanting that.
And it’s the same if it’s offensive or triggering, the algorithm decides to keep showing you such content so it can stun you into staying in the app longer.
This is why I’ve decided to outsource my social media use to lemmy and geminispace BBS boards, because sure instagram can be enjoyable a lot of the time, but if you use it excessively, it’s damaging.
Also, pro tip: if you don’t use Insta for a month or so, it decides to show you the best content possible to try getting you hooked again, but once you get to a video which isn’t awfully enjoyable, close it and forget about it for another month. Mileage may vary but it works for me somehow, even if I’m likely to be AuDHD
