This is like your boss finding shit to do when there’s nothing to do.
Hegseth criticizes Scouting for being “genderless” and for promoting diversity, equity and inclusion.
Imagine thinking this is a BAD thing.
Imagine thinking it’s true.
The Boy Scouts of America had to be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century by way of multiple sexual abuse scandals, a dwindling membership, and repeated bankruptcy.
This isn’t DEI, it’s a desperate appeal for more warm bodies in the program to shore up a dying movement.
It’s BAD in the sense that Scouting has largely become (arguably always had been) an MLM run by and for the benefit of a few connected business savvy insiders. And drawing in more grist for the mill only delays the inevitable failure of this corrupt and sclerotic institution.
It’s BAD in the sense that Scouting has largely become (arguably always had been) an MLM run by and for the benefit of a few connected business savvy insiders.
Could be worse: could be Girl Scouts.
Seriously though, if both Girl Scouts and “Scouting America” suck, is there some other alternative (short of not participating in a scouting-like organization at all)?
I have no idea if they are any better than the Scouts, but Campfire is the other big national one I’m aware of.
is there some other alternative
Plenty. But then tend to be local and they vary in content. Houston has a number of programs run through the Children’s Museum and the various universities (Rice, in particular) for aspiring engineers and nature lovers alike. The YMCA and the JCC both have youth programs for fitness and sports. Soccer is always popular.
Adventure Scouts?
How did we get here from the 90s?
Like I’m truly baffled
My wife and I often wonder at the difference between the world we grew up in (70s into 80s) and now. We call it “What a planet”. Marveling at how that world could possibly have changed into this one.
It’s trite, but true: unregulated capitalism is how.
Propaganda
The CIA’s cocaine and crack fueled 90s. Seems on par to me.
But this is a fairly recent thing that Boy Scouts has become more inclusive.
My kids were just moving up when they were opening cub scouts. As a parent I thought it was great that it made it more family oriented. No one complained about the girls, no one complained that women were now able to run camping events, no one complained that there were entire families at camping events.
I have no idea how they approached it for Boy Scouts.
But the thing is, this is change, recent change. And change is scary. Regressives want to hold back change, even to a past more mythical than real
He needs to stop. Dude is always worried about young boys and how sexy military folks are.
I mean, it’s kind of a bad thing when the literal whole point of Boy Scouts was to foster masculine qualities for boys. They had Girl Scouts for something else. And you could create a third Genderfree Scouts instead but no, they just got rid of Boy Scouts.
Ah yes the masculine qualities of camping in the woods. Helping out the community, and doing crafts. Wait…
Since when is messing around in the outdoors, helping out in the community, and making things masculine?
Can’t wait to tell my mom she’s a man! And I’ll be sure to remind my dad who’s a lot more of a homebody and enjoys making experimental deserts he shoulda joined the girlscouts…
Values are masculine and feminine as perceived by society not as a result of any inherent “energy”. Let people do what they want and don’t force labels down their throats.
When did I imply people shouldn’t do what they want? Ah yes, the classic ‘make up a thing to get mad about’ activity of keyboard warriors.
You’re basically being the “what is a woman?” guy. Masculinity and femininity can exist without being defined. Just let them be.
Was scouts supposed to ge about fostering “masculine” values ever?
I never did it, but I always thought it was about learning useful skills and confidence, appreciating nature (leave the camp cleaner than you found it) and learning how to work towards your goals.
Those things are not inherently masculine. They’re for everyone.
Trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent.
Nope, nothing in there about masculine.
Ugh, I still remember that whole list by heart. I did and do take issue with “obedient” and “reverent.” Question authority.
so you don’t thing women should be any of those things?
I’m honestly not clear if this is a sarcastic comment or not.
For myself - those all seem like gender neutral virtues, viewed separately and together. I don’t know that I agree with each one as a virtual, but I don’t see anything that would or should apply to one gender more than another.
yeah, it was a mean spirited comment, I just get pissed off when positive traits get gendered. all of these are good things for people to be, doesn’t matter the gender
This is the right take
It was mostly about setting things on fire in my experience.
Yes. And growing up in NY my experience with them was a lot less toxic than what some people here are describing, so it really was pretty much just about that.
Yeah, I’m from Jersey, and similar to you it was just a thing for boys to do. There was no homophobia, we accepted from the weird kid to the sporty kid, and eveyone in between, and sometimes there were cliques and sometimes we whittled soap. We went camping sometimes. There was fire, yeah, that seems to be ubiquitous among the boy scouts.
I stopped when I got bored. There were no scandals.
Yeah, as far as I know, none of the boys were being victimized by the orthodontist scout leader, and there was no serious religious aspect. Most of the kids were probably from liberal Jewish families who went to temple mainly on the high holidays, regardless. I quit because the camping trips kept getting cancelled, and that was the main reason I enjoyed it.
Christ, why can’t we just have normal things that are what they’re supposed to be, without wackjobs corrupting it?
I think we can and do have normal things. I feel like exposure to mass media brings problems right to your door, and it just isn’t how it is. At the same time, there is a bit of responsibility that falls on your (my) shoulders to be involved. I certainly won’t stand by while some bullshit is going down especially bullshit that my kids are exposed to. I will let kids be kids, but I won’t let them be poisoned with negative, fearful nonsense.
And so yeah, my response to much of the crippling depression that’s blasted at us over the past 10 years has been to stick my head in the sand. And people here will chastise me for this, but I refuse to take on global problems when I’ve got things right here that need my attention. I know this isn’t exactly what we’re talking about, but I come to Lemmy to philosophize.
I’d say, as far as being distinct from the Girl Scouts, that the two groups had basically identical values and goals. Boy Scouts maybe leaned a little heavier on the camping and knot tying and outdoor skills, but both were mainly focused on building good character, community service, basic life skills, etc.
Like ten years ago, Girl Scouts in my town had a civil war, because they were leaning too heavily on “girl”activities. A bunch of the girls defected to Boy scouts to do “more fun activities”
It was created as a paramilitary organization so kind of?
Something about the phrase boy friendly spaces sounds very odd to me. Certainly doesn’t sound like the warrior mentality ole drunk Pete is going for does it?
He should just use “safe spaces.” Much clearer and surely he’d get the full support of everyone who supports this
He also just tried to remove nooses and swazticas from the military’s recognized hate symbols so this tracks. I fully expect this administration to announce some form of Shitler youth indoctrination program any day now.
That is essentially the role Kirk (formerly) and Fuentes play.
I don’t think they were into Kirk’s anti Israel stance. Im sure Erica is happy to stay within the lines
I was in cub/boy scouts from ages maybe 10 all the way up aging out at 18. It was mostly about being homophobic, knives, and fire aka the three pillars of young white boys in the 90’s. I couldn’t be happier at how they’ve been trying to turn things around these past 10 years.
Also, Fed involvement with the Scouts is minimal. Apparently they provide logistical support at Nat’l Jamboree (not that I ever saw) and give tours of bases and stuff (not that I ever saw). So this seems, at best, performative.
Wait until he finds out our old pack burned flags!
Back when patriotism was “normal”, Scouts along with veterans helped organize and run a regional event to properly and respectfully retire worn flags. It was a huge deal
Czech here, glad Scouts hold the flag to the same standard everywhere. We used to burn the flag if it touched the ground or was “desecrated” in a different way.
I hope current scouts in your country can still treat such things as normal. Here in the US, any patriotic symbolism has been taken by the crazies.
They still do! At least our center does. Other were saying it they do it as well, but that was about 10 years ago, and I hope they still do it.
It is not treated as some kind of patriotism, it is merely to uphold the highest standard for a national symbol.
But nobody here really treats it as overly dramatic or extreme.
When I was 10 or so where my cousin was part of the boy scout flag retirement It was pretty elaborate with speeches, explanations, demonstration on how to start a fire, a whole folding mini ceremony complete with symbolism about each fold signifance and then love music during the actual buring. Maybe 40-50 people in the audience?
I asked my navy uncle on the way home “I thought burning flags was a bad thing…?” and he promptly told me to shut the fuck up, they did it the only correct way and not ask stupid questions.
Never wanted to do anything scout related again. Weird lil 'MERICA indoctrination culty shit.
Nothing about that sounds normal to me, to be honest. Normal would be disposing of flags the same we we dispose of other rubbish.
The scouts have come a long way in the past few years. But I imagine most of the adult that make up that organization are republican voters, and you reap what you sow.
Varies wildly by location
My troop was always pretty chill and inclusive (for a 90s Boy Scout troop). But yes, of course an all-male organization with ranks and uniforms and a big emphasis on faith and patriotism is going to attract more conservatives (and pedos!) than your area’s average.
I feel a bit of schadenfreude for this one. I was bullied harder in Boy Scouts than I ever was at school or church. None of the leaders ever noticed or did jack shit about it. There was an expectation of physical strength and ability that I was never able to meet. The uniforms were ridiculously expensive. And the higher levels of the local org were deeply cultish under the surface and intertwined with the Mormon church in bizarre ways (this was before the Mormon church stopped being an official sponsor of scouting).
I know things have gotten better lately, and the current administration is incapable of doing good things, but if Scouting goes bankrupt I will not shed a tear.
yeah man those Mormon-only troops were another flavor for sure lol. Mormonism + nationalism + being 14 + a uniform is a helluva drug it turns out.
Same.
He really is insecure.
Making way for the Red Rangers. Where they teach you about how to torture anyone you don’t like.
Scouts wore their badges on the wrong side. Court martial.
