Teachers will be forced to tell parents that their child is questioning their gender even if the young person objects under new guidance for schools in England, the equalities minister has indicated.
I love how people who aren’t part of the community think they know what’s best for the community. Fucking assholes, outing kids into what could be a potentially dangerous situation, depending on the parents views.
I’d love to out their deepest, most well kept secrets, see how they feel.
It’s disgusting how all these ‘protections’ they put in place will do more harm than good. You can tell it’s coming from an anti trans standpoint as they’re trying to scare people into staying hidden.
Fuck the government.
Don’t blame the government. Name the people making these decisions.
I blame them all. The idiots proposing this shit and the government agreeing it’s a good idea. They’re all morons.
My point is that “the government” isn’t some black-box machine. The government is people. You can blame “the government” all you want, but it’s the people pulling the levers who deserve the blame. They should be named.
The government is not the people.
They are meant to be public servants serving the tax payers.
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Government employees shouldn’t be keeping secrets from the people they are meant to serve.
You guys will be banning books like Florida next if you don’t nip this fascist bullshit in the bud right now.
Can someone explain how/why the Brits appear to be turning into Texans?
We have a very right wing cabinet, mainly due to everybody else getting kicked out/ resigning. They are very likely to get kicked out themselves next year, but due to the fixed term parliament law they are basically untouchable until then, so they are getting as much shit done as they can before they get replaced.
The smear shit on the walls before you get evicted approach to governing. You’ve been taking lessons from the US haven’t you.
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I gave up teaching two years after moving to the UK, it’s an absolute mess.
I can only imagine needing to fill out the “inform the parent” form and then immediately needing to fill out a safeguarding form (something you fill out any time you note anything like bruises, comments, out of sort actions, etc.). It’s absolutely tragic.
Exactly. Puts you in a position where not only are you legally required to potentially put a child in direct line of fire by ousting them, you then can’t then do jack about it until the situation turns visibly abusive.
I’ve been arguing it out with someone that safeguarding absolutely includes (or should’ve included) the right of teachers (or more so the school) to not disclose information that could potentially lead to abuse.
Teachers are usually the first non-parental authority figures kids will go to with these types of questions, and now they’re being cut off from that safe space.
Strict surveillance doesn’t raise more honest people, it raises better liars.
Kids being unable to trust teachers here reminds me of being unable to trust teachers to stop anti-gay bullying due to Section 28.
Ahh, more reasons for people to leave teaching.
Honestly, I think the only teachers I know that are still teachers today is because they’re under the thumb of this system - specialised training that isn’t much use elsewhere, so they have to stay and continue to work in increasingly impoverished conditions.
Any teachers reading this - I’m sorry for what you have to go through, and even as a childless individual, I am greatful for the sacrifices you’re making to ensure the future of our society.
You act like zero teachers agree with this shit…
That’s the point, run out anyone that’s not on the same “team”
Good. Things shouldn’t be hidden from parents.
Like most things in life, it depends on the kind of people the parents are.
The ability to have unprotected sex doesn’t give anyone special powers, or make them a better person by default.
Some parents are awful.
And the non-awful parents are probably already going to know something is up anyway, or have the sort of relationship where the kid is comfortable telling them.
So this law is specifically designed to help awful parents be more awful to their trans kids.
In a perfect world, sure. Here in the real world, some parents are shitty people.
Given that there are plenty of parents who are transphobic and will in fact do irreparable damage to the children in question… no.
and will in fact do irreparable damage to the children in question
Well, yeah… that’s the whole point of the law.
Oh no no no, it’s to HELP them you see. They’re just MISGUIDED! /s
Yeah, any time someone says “for the children” or “because of terrorists / criminals” I immediately think “what fuckery are you trying to fob off on us now?”
You do understand that there are parents who would make their children homeless (or worse) over issues of sexuality and gender right?
Is it that important to be able to snoop on every facet of your child’s life that you support turning what should’ve been a safespace for children who find themselves in the above scenario into yet another place they’re forced to hide.
Also, if you’re at the point where you’re resorting to using the law to force secrets out of your children, rather than having them trust you enough to just tell you, you should probably question your relationship with your children.
You do understand that there are parents who would make their children homeless (or worse) over issues of sexuality and gender right?
And there should be programs for these youths to help them out.
Is it that important to be able to snoop on every facet of your child’s life that you support turning what should’ve been a safespace for children who find themselves in the above scenario into yet another place they’re forced to hide.
You want government employees determining whats okay for the kids, but have parents take any repercussions. Either parents are responsible for their kids decisions, or teachers, can’t have your cake and eat it too.
Also, if you’re at the point where you’re resorting to using the law to force secrets out of your children
Therapists have an obligation for confidentiality, teachers are public servants, they should serve the tax payers.
And there should be programs for these youths to help them out.
You want government employees determining whats okay for the kids, but have parents take any repercussions. Either parents are responsible for their kids decisions, or teachers, can’t have your cake and eat it too.
Exactly how are these kids meant to find out about these programs to help them if there’s literally nobody they know that they’re allowed to disclose this information to without their parents immediately finding out about it?
You say “government employee” like as though it’s a tax collector you’re putting in charge of these kids.
At least in the UK, teachers have to undergo a lot of safe-guarding training before they’re even allowed to teach. They’re supposed to protect your child’s safety, even from you if required. That’s serving the tax-payer, and this law jeopardises their ability to do so in that scenario.
Therapists have an obligation for confidentiality, teachers are public servants, they should serve the tax payers.
Yes, because children (without the aid of parents) can afford a therapist. That’s your worst take so far.
Also, you missed the second part there where you can bypass all of this by simply fostering an environment where your child feels safe to tell you this in the first place. If your child isn’t telling you something that fundemental about themselves, it’s because they don’t feel safe to do so.
What if they’re abusive?
They do not care, they just want to out trans kids because something something parents rights.
Parents should be aware of what is going on in their kids’ lives.
This means being a parent and actively being involved in their life. It does not mean abusing the trust that kids give to teachers, councilors, therapists and other adults they might confide in.
who said anything about therapists? Teachers are servants for the tax payers.
Therapists have a commitment to confidentiality in almost all circumstances.
Perhaps therapist was the wrong word. Many schools have health officers who act as emotional support staff that work with students.
I believe all educators have a duty to the well-being of the student ovet the parents. Students are people too, not a thing that parents own until they turn 18. They should be afforded confidentiality too.
Perhaps therapist was the wrong word. Many schools have health officers who act as emotional support staff that work with students.
If their job ethically requires a non disclosure factor, than that’s more reasonable.
But even doctors, that have privacy requirements, have to share medical information with the kids guardians.
I believe all educators have a duty to the well-being of the student ovet the parents
I think this is a difference between how you see the teacher parent relationship and how I do.
I imagine you believe teachers should be nurturers of these kids and help facilitate their growth as human beings.
I see them as government agents, that are paid (and therefore should serve) by the taxpayers. The fact that taxpayers can overwhelmingly say they want/don’t want something, and schools override them is the exact opposite of what I believe the role of public school educators should be. Responsible for teaching the basics of what we think important topics are for kids - generally math, sciences, social studies and literature.
Students are people too, not a thing that parents own until they turn 18.
If my 10 YO kid throws a rock at a window and payment is needed to replace it, who’s responsible to pay for it?
Will the law go after his teacher? Go after him? No. They go after me. I’m responsible for them, and it seems that teachers want to nurture them, but take no responsibility if there’s repercussions.
They should be afforded confidentiality too.
In everything? You don’t think there’s any scenario’s which a teacher should tell the parents what their kids are doing at school?
Hey sorry, I really wasn’t looking for a long argument here, just wanted to clarify my earlier comment.
But yes, we have different viewpoints. I have kids. I would feel responsible for the window because it’s my kid and that’s reasonable and what society expects. If my kid wanted to talk to their teacher about something in private I’m ok with that.
They obviously won’t share literally everything, but if my kids have a problem trusting me then I’m failing as a parent.
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Social media won’t like it, because they think that government employees should be determining what’s okay, not the people themselves.
Contact information for the person responsible
God damn… I looked this person up, expecting some asshole white guy,… and it’s a black woman. Hate and bigotry really transcends race and gender.
Teachers are public servants.
If they’re hiding necessary information about my kid from me, that’s not serving the tax payers. That’s government employees determining decisions for kids that aren’t their own, without taking any risk for how these decisions turn out.
If your child is too afraid of telling you something important about themselves or their lives, that is a YOU problem. Public servants exist to protect children from risks to their health and safety, including risks at home. Nobody has a right to abuse their children. If you want to know about their lives and challenges, you need to make yourself a safe person for them to confide in. If you are not, that’s on you and you alone.
If your child is too afraid of telling you something important about themselves or their lives, that is a YOU problem
Did you tell your parents everything in high school?
I smoked weed for the first time when I was 13, I didn’t tell my parents. Is that because my parents are bad? I didn’t tell them I had sex with my first girlfriend, does that make my parents bad? I didn’t tell them I was with my homies and he was speeding down gardener road, going 100.
Are my parents bad?
Public servants exist to protect children from risks to their health and safety, including risks at home.
And we have standards for that, if parents suspect abuse, they have to report it. Whether it’s for the + community, or if it’s for the straight cis community.
Nobody has a right to abuse their children.
I agree.
If you want to know about their lives and challenges, you need to make yourself a safe person for them to confide in.
I agree.
Estimates of child abuse range from 10-20% of all school age children in the UK. Any person who is working in a classroom (including TAs and volunteers) has had some amount of safeguarding training to help mitigate the risk of harm to children.
It is literally our/their job to help prevent or mitigate harm that might come to children in their home lives, and teachers, admins, and safeguarding leads make decisions every day based on a clear and well-monitored framework to do so. This decision, made by people with little or no experience in the field, spits in the face of all of that.
Estimates of child abuse range from 10-20% of all school age children in the UK. Any person who is working in a classroom (including TAs and volunteers) has had some amount of safeguarding training to help mitigate the risk of harm to children.
Exactly. “ALL SCHOOL AGE CHILDREN.” We already have all these ways that teachers are obligated to report abuse if they suspect it. Why do we need to carve out special treatment of the LGBTQIA2S+ communities? They’re just humans. If teachers suspect abuse, they should report it, whether it’s for LGBTQIA2S+ or straight cis kids.
It is literally our/their job to help prevent or mitigate harm
No your job is to be a public servant and educate kids. It’s the parents responsibility to ensure their kids are safe.
This decision, made by people with little or no experience in the field, spits in the face of all of that.
Because it comes to parental rights, and limiting the influence government employees push on our youth.
LGBTQIA2S+, good one. I think they prefer 2SLGBTQIA+ because it elevates indigenous communities. I don’t miss the social sciences, it’s fair to say.
I think the indigenous communities are equals, and I’m not afraid to say it.
Kids are not your property.
If your kid is trans or gay and they don’t feel safe coming out to you then that’s your fault. There are no decisions being made. Kids are going to be queer weather you like it or not.
If you think you can “do something” about your kids being queer then that’s probably why they don’t want to tell you.
Kids are not your property.
Legally, parents/guardians are responsible for them. If my kid breaks something in a store, do they arrest my kid if he’s unwilling to pay?
If your kid is trans or gay and they don’t feel safe coming out to you then that’s your fault.
I agree.
There are no decisions being made
Deciding to intentionally withhold information from parents is a decision.
Kids are going to be queer weather you like it or not.
I agree.
If you think you can “do something” about your kids being queer then that’s probably why they don’t want to tell you.
I agree.
What are you even arguing, dude? You’re just saying some blanket statements.
Are you going to follow this up by claiming the right to physical violence against your child if they don’t conform?
Why would they not tell their parents? Genuine question from someone out of the loop. If my kid was questioning I would prefer I know, right? The school has the kid for the majority of their time awake during the school year. This makes sense to me.
Because bigots have literally tortured their kids over being queer forever. Kids who don’t feel safe coming out at home usually have a good reason from fear of abuse to becoming homeless.
Because there are deeply bigoted parents that would hit their child if they found out. Maybe try to see it from their viewpoint?
That’s why I commented a question asking for rationale behind a different viewpoint. Thanks stranger, that makes sense.
I’ve been arguing exactly this with someone else somewhere in this thread. There are children who would be abused/kicked out of their home over this sort of thing.
I’d happy waiting until my child is ready to tell me to learn of certain aspects about them if it means protecting another from harm of this sort.
The problem I feel is the very parents demanding to know this information are the exact parents you wouldn’t want knowing this information for their child’s sake.
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I was questioning the gender of my teachers all the time but they did not go whining to my parents about it. Ill give them that.
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That’s completely besides the point. Teachers are responsible for a child’s wellbeing when they are looking after them, and as part of that tbr child might bring that up to their teacher and the child should be able to trust in that teacher to keep it from parents who might react negatively to that news, much like you would a doctor.
This law doesn’t change the education the child receives it only serves to put trans kids at risk of abuse from their parents.
Its not possible to leave it out of instruction. The purpose of education (as it currently exists, and as they claim it to be) is to prepare children to function as adults in society. Some kids have racist parents, some kids have homophobic parents, some kids have misogynistic parents, some children are abused at home or are taught hatred and bigotry. The state has an obligation to advocate for the rights of children, because children are vulnerable and are not capable of removing themselves from an abusive home. Its the entire reason protective services exists in theory. Children are not possessions, you cannot just do whatever you want to your child, your child has the same fundamental human rights as any other human being. And like any other vulnerable human being, society has to ensure that the rights of children are being respected.
Children who are outted to their parents can face homelessness, abuse, psychological torture in conversion camps, ostracization from their friends and communities, isolation, manipulation, and bullying. It can end lives. Children can and do die because they are outted to their transphobic parents. As I said, society had a responsibility to ensure that the rights of children are being respected. The right to safety and security is one such right that is compromised by forcibly outting children to their parents. Educators should ALWAYS have to listen to the child and take no action without the permission of that child. Because children are people, and people are supposed to have rights. Children are not possessions of their parents, they are human beings who have fundamental rights the same as any other human being. The state should not be considering parents at all in this equation. The only person who needs to consider whether or not parents should know would be the children in question.
Children should also be taught about the existence of gay and trans people as part of regular education. The state has an obligation to provide proper education to everyone. Proper education should take steps to mitigate bigotry. Anti racism should be taught in schools, feminism and women’s rights should be taught in schools. It is much the same with gay and trans rights.
Sounds like disingenuous braying to me.
Part of education, especially childhood education, has to be teaching children about the world they live in and how to navigate it. Which does mean that they need to be taught about tolerance and the differences between people. That’s necessary for understanding and navigating the world they’re entering. And teachers are there to guide them on that journey and keep them safe. To be an adult to whom they can ask questions without fear of reprisal. To be someone primarily interested in their success and not some other political goal.
Conservatives are the ones stepping into this process and interfering. Forbidding teachers to teach about the world. And forcing teachers to violate the confidence needed to keep children safe. Conservatives are the ones trying to replace education with a tool for indoctrination.
The only interpretation of a rule like the one in this article is that there is a belief that a child questioning their gender is equivalent to a child admitting to some kind of self-harm. It’s pure bigotry and cruelty from people who know nothing and resist learning anything about the science and psychology of the subject. It is part of a genocidal agenda of demonizing and denying part of human identity. It is unacceptable. And worse, it’s a violation of the fundamental relationship between the teacher and the student. It’s interfering with and taking focus from education.
Be an ally of the human race or shut the fuck up.
Imagine being a kid under constant surveillance. Boomers really are all helicopter parents if they vote shit like this through. That will fuck up their kids and grandkids big time.
Bloomers are currently aged 57-75. It’s Gen X (46-56yrs old) and Millenials (25-40yrs old) that currently have most of the kids in school. Agree with the rest of your comment though.
As a millennial with a child, I’m so glad my parents didn’t have half the shit available to them that my generation has. Even in a lot of daycares the parents can watch the CCTV live of their child. Literally just sit there at work and watch their child.
And that’s before you get into tracking when kids get phones.
Boomers are born 1945-65ish. Usually they do not have kids in school anynore. This is the younger generation. X or millennials
Would teachers be able to protest this law by telling all the parents their kid is questioning their gender all the time?
Hopefully, the rest of the EU holds the line on this, so that when the British come crawling back in a few years with their economy in tatters, they’re forced to roll back all of this barbaric Tory social legislation as a condition of readmittance.
