Reposting my comment from another similar thread ‘cause I think it’s kind of important to add.
Ok, so it doesn’t mention wet bulb temperature anywhere, so I went to figure it out. The first thing I was surprised with is apparently most of online calculators don’t take in values higher than 50C.
I couldn’t find the exact data about humidity for that day, but it has been 35-40%+ at a minimum for most days in that region, sometimes even reaching 90%.
So, 52C at around 40% humidity is 37.5C in wet bulb temp. The point of survivability is around 35, and most humans should be able to withstand 37.5 for several hours, but it’s much worse for sick or elderly. 39 is often a death sentence even for healthy humans after just two hours — your body can no longer lose heat and you bake from the inside. That’s like having an unstoppable runaway fever. And with that humidity it’s reached at 54C.
We’re dangerously close to that.
An absolute death sentence for folks without air conditioning or another means to stay cool.
Time to make some mud and make like pigs I suppose?
I know the predator movie was preparing us for something
I don’t want to be rude, and I completely am all for combating climate change, but 39C is not baking your insides…
I have been deployed to multiple places that were 52C (~125F) in the day/night with high humidity levels, in full long sleeve/pants for 8 hours at a time. 39C (~102F) is hot, but not bake you from the inside type of hot.
Elderly and sick are people not included in what I said above for obvious reasons.
I find it pretty funny that people are arguing both “35 WBT is pretty fine” and “31.5 WBT is a death sentence”.
Yet somewhere in that range seems to be the consensus for an actual “your body is on the clock and you’re not surviving it for a prolonged time” situation.
I don’t know your personal experience and how dangerous it was in regards to temperature, but high temperature environments start feeling pretty humid at like ~50%, so you still pretty much need an actual temperature/humidity reading to gauge it correctly.
So guys, take it to the scientists :) I’m not talking out of my ass here, rather quoting research data. There are a couple dozen papers listed in the link above, and most seem to agree on the dangerous temp region. Read their methodology and reasoning if you’re interested to learn more.
Oh I’m not arguing it’s a hot temp and exerting yourself in those temps is very much a death sentence; especially without water. I’m saying that many people in the world have lived through those temperatures. Research studies have a way of making things a bit more dire than what is normally human survivable, probably for legal/medical moral reasons.
The US military definitely has rules against 40+ WBT and state how many hours of work per hours of rest we could have in high temp+humidity levels. However, I, and anyone who had to deploy or live in East Africa (like Djibouti) or the Middle East can definitely attest, 50WBT is survivable for 8 hours days. Again, not talkin’ elderly or sick persons.
Well it’s been fun y’all, cya in the wasteland, better watch your water.
You mean the same water that’s so contaminated with forever chemicals that multiple governments set recommended limits for safe fish consumption?
Hahaha…we’re fucked.
For those interested:
"A new study has found that consuming a single fish from the Great Lakes is equal to drinking a month’s worth of water contaminated with high levels of “forever chemicals.”
(The recommended amount of some species of fish is now 0 in lake Michigan.)
http://www.idph.state.il.us/envhealth/fishadv/lakemichigan.htm
Have you ever had a friend or relative who was just in such poor health, who you basically expected to keel over and die any day now? If so, you probably know what I mean when you eventually just accept that the person you once knew is already dead, and all that’s left is a husk that’s just riding out the last bit of momentum they’ve got until they fade away. And then when they finally do die, it doesn’t even hurt, because you’ve already had time to grieve and process your emotions in advance.
That’s kinda how I feel about the earth these days. I feel like the earth is on hospice care, and at that point that we’re just making it as comfortable as we can for it to die.
Maybe that’s a little melodramatic. But it really does just feel hopeless these days.
It’s not Earth that’s in trouble…
Yeah I feel like this is just like when the body gets a fever to get rid of a sickness. The earth is just getting a little fever to get rid of our dumbasses real quick. Then it will go right back to normal and be completely fine.
If it’s any consolation. Earth, as in the spinning ball of dirt, will be just fine for many more millions of years. Humans, and other animal species, on the other hand are not going to be fine if the trend continuous.
Dunno, I find it kind of consoling in a meloncolic kind of way.
It’s not the first mass extinction and it will not be the last.
I feel you. I don’t think it’s hopeless, but I do think we’re in for a rough ride. That being said, I actually have a lot of faith in the upcoming generation. I think that if they get angry enough, they have the potential to arrest what’s happening and even turn it around given how well they work together. Greta gets a lot of hate, but hell, I haven’t seen someone make as successful a series of environmental stands since Julia Butterfly. If her generation keeps showing that fire, I think there’s still hope for humans to live in harmony with the earth.
As much as I also have hope in the next generation, there isn’t a damn thing we can do anymore. If every single human being disappeared right now, the earth would continue warming and experiencing climate change for 100s more years, because of the feedback loops we have set in motion and the fact that the ocean is still dampening some effects, but won’t be able to for long. Our only hope to avert complete disaster, collapse of society and maybe even the extinction of humanity is if we find a way to start pulling massive amounts of CO2 out of the atmosphere ASAP. Carbon neutrality isn’t enough, we need to be carbon negative. If zoomers can get that done, in time, then they’re a whole other fucking class of human. I hope they do, but I think the odds are against them and all of us.
I know china wants to out do us on everything but fuck China maybe don’t reach for the stars on that specific metric.
I have a friend with two daughters in their late teens, early 20s. I asked him the other day how they felt about climate change. He said they believed it was happening, but they don’t think it’s nearly as bad as “the media makes out”. He added, “You know, we went through the Cold War and fear of nuclear annihilation and that didn’t happen, so…” We were interrupted then so I didn’t get to yell at him. But I think a lot of people think that way. Pffft, probably won’t happen, news orgs exaggerating for clicks, someone will fix it etc etc. While shrugging at all the floods and fires and storms happening around the globe, and booking a cheap flight to Malaga. It’s exasperating!
If it helps to know, a lot of people around that age are also very aware of what’s going on. Many of us are also mortified at the thought of what’s to come in 20-50 years.
I think that every generation needs to get out and actually vote to if we want to have a chance at even reducing the damage. It should be more shocking to people that the effects of climate change continue to be worse than scientists predicted. What are we going to do if the 50-100 year climate prediction is also too optimistic?
I think that a lot of people might forget that they might still be around to feel the effects of all of this. I don’t know about you, but I’m really not looking forwards to dealing with the intense weather when I’m old and frail. It’s going to really suck for other at-risk groups, too.
Another side of the environmental concerns is being forgotten too often, imo. What are we going to do with all of these forever chemicals? The great lakes have recommended safe intake limits for fish caught there. There is mercury, PCBS, PFAS, and lots of other nasty stuff in our soil and water. There was a large amount of time where the industrial sector was practically unregulated, so a lot of things were dumped in bad places. If these things are known to cause severe health issues and reproductive problems in humans, they’re probably going to mess up animals too. We should also think about all of the disposal sites that may not have been discovered yet. I hope they are testing for that more now. My grandfather’s house was unknowingly built on land that was severely contaminated with TCE. They know now, but people lived there for years without a clue!
Scary times.
“Global warming is a lie”
Something I’m noticing is that while America continues their pattern of climate denial and destructive hyper-individualism, China - for all its flaws - seems to be leading the charge on the single greatest existential challenge of our time.
China is rapidly expanding renewables and green tech. They’re on track to become the world’s renewable superpower. While Americans absentmindedly whine and complain about society improving, China gets right to work on constructing a green national infrastructure to actually address the root causes of the crisis.
China understands collective action and planning are the only way humanity can overcome existential threats. China’s top-down governance, however authoritarian some claim, efficiently marshalled resources to minimize devastation during the COVID pandemic, but what’s possibly more important is their collective culture, the populace’s eager willingness to listen to the authorities, and make personal sacrifices for the benefit of society as a whole. None of that “freedumb” nonsense or pearl-clutching. Imagine if the US mandated decisive actions, not “choose your own experiment!”
This is serious; we cannot rest on our laurels and we cannot go back to brunch. We haven’t the luxury of half measures. Rather, we need the appropriate sort of complete and holistic mobilization asap to transition to greener, more sustainable models. To survive impending eco-collapse will require global equity, not privileged nations hoarding pie while the rest burn. We’d be wise to learn from China’s example. Obviously they’re not perfect - no one is - but I think their climate policies reveal what truly ambitious climate action looks like: bold, large-scale interventions that prioritize the collective good over individual freedoms.
As the CCP seems to want to own the world and everyone in it, it only makes sense that they want to save their toys from the flames. Well, as long as they aren’t Muslim, dissenters, a sovereign Taiwan, or anyone else that they don’t like.
I realize that this is a kneejerk reaction, but your post’s core is still ‘America bad, China good, so bend over like a good sheep, stupid’.
Valid concerns, but still opportunistic propaganda disguised as concern for the world, so perhaps the message shouldn’t be delivered via tankie.
That being said, try to stay cool, bud.
The Chinese Propaganda Machine is already affecting Lemmy like it did on Reddit lol.
Seriously though I’m kind of sick of it and China’s lying as they make more and more coal plants and have mini environmental disasters like the rent-able electric car trend that so many companies did just to make bang over buck from the CCP over it that failed during covid.
China is not your friend nor is the friend of the world infact it is actively harmful to both human rights and the environment at large.
Anyway unlike other people I do have sources for what I claim here.
See https://energyandcleanair.org/publication/china-permits-two-new-coal-power-plants-per-week-in-2022/ https://www.scmp.com/abacus/tech/article/3029238/thousands-shared-electric-cars-seen-discarded-hangzhou
china has a rapidly aging populace, an unsustainable birthrate, and far too many peasants to support - they’ve got a very small window of time to prepare for the collapse of the country. when it happens, they’ll retreat, eastwards, to where the larger cities are (which isnt in the western 4/5ths of the current borders). that region you’ve highlighted will be abandoned - it doesnt really matter if it’s 22c or 52c. presumably the russians or the indians will pick it up, but probably wont settle in that area.
superpower though? lol no. regional power in southeast asia, at best. manufacturing is leaving china as we speak. in 10 years most of our “made in china” stickers will be “made in nigeria”, or “made in argentina”
This was a great paper, I don’t have a direct link though sorry.
And people thought I was kidding when I wondered a few years ago when we would have to face the problem of not even being able to drive due to melting tires from the heat.
crop failure will be a big issue. cant grow corn or apples indoors. Hope yall like… lettuce.
Lettuce is a luxury food with very little nutrition and high water requirements…
Chances are good that the majority won’t retain access to it for very long really since it will make the most sense to grow something more efficient.
Potatoes. You don’t need a lot of light and they grow from the sprouts of old potatoes. They do need some water though. Same with other root vegetables like carrots and sweet potatoes. But I’ve never managed to get a sweet potato to grow. Carrots and potatoes and tomatoes grow good in the fall and winter in az. Now I’m just trying to figure out what to grow to can for the summer months.
The world is a ripe tomato.
The world is three miles of bad road
Walking down the street
Will I never meet her?
She’s a real woman-child
Oh, my kiss breath turpentine… I am smitten…
Lovely haiku.
“Its always hot in summer”
Or how about “it’s cooler where I am this year, so far! We even had snow!”
“It hasn’t been as hot in my area this year”
I love that they just have to make up colors now since the previous spectrum is no so inadequate
Glad they’re doing that instead of rescaling it, otherwise it’d be easier to ignore.
I think we’re gonna need a bigger scale.
Nah just shorten the when it’s supposed to happen axle. We’ve known for years. Yet another great thing America gave us, petroleum based capitalism,
Yeah America is the only one with cars. Capitalism bad.
Posted from iphone
Man, that must be hell, it’s literally death valley temperature since they were the same temperature this week. Kinda ironic how death valley name was because the dudes who were stuck finally left saying “goodbye death valley”, and in the future it’ll literally become death.
It’s strange - in the UK we’re usually getting toasty this time of year too, but we’ve had unusually mild weather despite many other parts of the world experiencing record temperatures. Feels like the mildest summer we’ve had in about 10 years.
This might be because we’re in an ill niño weather event. This brings hot coast to the southern hemisphere particularly South America. And it means the North is cooler particularly north Europe and Canada. This will flip back and forth over the years
ill niño
Must be summer 1999 🤘
It’s Spanish for… The nino.
chuckles I’m in danger!
