MJ calls what happened to her in Zion national park “small ‘T’ trauma”. She knows women have experienced worse from their partners. But she still feels the anger of being left behind on a hike by her now ex. “It brings up stuff in my body that maybe I have not cleared out yet,” she said.
Five years ago, MJ and a new partner – he was not exactly her boyfriend, and the pair were not exclusive – traveled from Los Angeles to Utah for an adventure getaway. MJ, who is 38 and works in PR, was looking forward to exploring Zion’s striking scenery; its vast sandstone canyon and pristine wading trails were on the list. But on the morning of their big hike, MJ was not feeling well. She could not shake the feeling that something was “off”; indeed, MJ would learn on this trip that her partner was seeing other women.
As they made their way up Angel’s Landing, MJ’s partner started walking faster than her. “I could tell it was getting on his nerves that I was slow,” she said. “I was like, ‘Fuck it, just go ahead of me.’” He did without hesitation.
When she caught up at the top of the mountain, they took a picture together. Then her partner hiked down the mountain with a woman he had met on the way up, leaving MJ to finish by herself. They broke up shortly after that trip. (MJ asked to be referred to by her initials for the sake of speaking openly about a past relationship.)
Last month, MJ opened TikTok and heard the phrase “alpine divorce”, a label she now attaches to her experience in Zion.
I’m just gonna say it, if you want to break up with your girlfriend don’t be a dick about it.
“Don’t go on a hike with someone you don’t trust.” All you little boys in here victim blaming need to be checked.
Got back into the dating world recently and was pretty surprised to learn that respectfully communicating your feelings about things afterwards is apparently rare. People need to grow up.
Ever since social media took over, dating and relationship rates have plummeted.
The amount and stuntedness of emotionally stunted immature men is only going up with social media…everything
the pair were not exclusive
…
MJ would learn on this trip that her partner was seeing other women
…isn’t that was “not exclusive” means?
You don’t expect your BF to hook up with someone new mid-mountain.
Actually it says he wasn’t exactly her boyfriend either
Ok so it’s ok to abandon your fuck buddy. TIL
I was talking about the hooking up mid mountain part, which is what your comment I replied to was primarily about. And the OPs too.
You can just admit you missed that part instead of getting defensive.
I missed nothing. That is not important to the story. When you go into the wilderness with someone, you have formed an inherent defense pact and have a duty of care to each other. Hooking up mid mountain and leaving the other person, regardless of their relationship, is immoral. If harm comes to them, then it was likely illegal.
Your comment wasn’t talking about the “abandoning mid mountain” part. It was talking about the relationship status part. That’s the part I corrected. We weren’t, in this comment chain, talking about the overall story - it was about your comment on their relationship. Stop trying to build a strawman.
Geez, Americans really can’t admit they made even a minor mistake.
Adding you to my block list. Keep your petulant pedantry to yourself.
yes, but people are emotional and they don’t abide by their own terms
every casual relationship i ever had was never actually casual. it was just full on monogamy with a ‘get out of jail if someone better comes along’ card built in.
So…
They weren’t in an exclusive relationship.
She told him to walk ahead without her.
And he talked to someone else since she told him not to walk with her, someone he seems to have met while waiting for her at the summit before going down.
Kind of sounds like she broke off a situationship on a hike. And immediately assumed if he talked to any woman then he was romantically interested in her, so their open relationship was never going to work anyways.
Even the actual alpine one where the woman was left in a blizzard recently and died, her parents have come out and said the infantilizing of their daughter was an insult to her memory.
Like, it should be a safe bet that anything that starts on TimToknis bullshit.
But yeah, big outdoorsy trips aren’t for rocky relationships. Romantic or otherwise you need to be going with people you trust. Shit can get stressful and not everyone reacts well to stress. It’s not the same thing as the same distance walk thru the park.
You seem to be making a lot of assumptions there.
No, I just read the article…
What app/frontend do you use? It seems most people are missing the feature to open the source to read.
Yeah that situation seemed defensible on his part. But then the article comes in and outright says that in a lot of these cases it’s a failure of communication where the men aren’t thinking about it like that and in hindsight realized that they’d made a mistake.
That all said, I find it difficult to be sympathetic to these guys as someone who likes to hike with her wife. Even if I was annoyed she wasn’t able to keep up with me I can’t imagine ditching her even if she told me to. When I go hiking with someone or a group one of the major rules is that you never leave the weakest hiker alone unless it’s an emergency. You stick together and enjoy each other’s company
Wife is quite a different magnitude of commitment, in comparison to a non-exclusive non-girlfriend partner.
So like, some lady I’m on an early date with? Yeah no different in general rule. If I take you into a situation that you aren’t individually comfortable in I’m an asshole for ditching you there alone, even if we decide we hate each other in the meantime
What? No it isn’t. This isn’t about personal relationships, it’s about responsibility during a dangerous hike.
By the way: this particular hike is very very very safe.
How dare you!
With a male bias. Are you a misogynist by chance?
Are you a misandress, by chance?
Astounding that there are men in here defending these dickbags left right and centre. And presumably other men just like yep good point bro, technically correct. Please dump me and run off a fucking cliff you spineless turdweasels
Lemmy is better than Reddit but there are still terrible trolls and awful people here.
There are absolutely legit reasons to leave someone behind on a hike.
And I’ve heard zero of them in these stories from women.
I actually expected far more defenders than I am seeing. Mostly I see some forms of victum blaming, though not directly defending the men’s actions. I do see some discussion too, which is pretty rare on subjects like this. Still a long way to go, but it’s a baby step forward I guess.
And some men wonder why some women would choose a bear.
I would choose a teddy bear over any human in the woods.
Just a few weeks ago I saw a dude have an argument with his partner on top of Cradle Mountain and then head down before her. We kept an eye on her to make sure she made it down OK (sketchy down climbing). He was at the bottom of the steep bit on his phone when we got there… She caught up and they seemed fine, but it was a weird vibe.
I went with my ex to a local waterfall once. It was pretty dry, so I wanted to explore the top of the falls a bit since it’s normally not accessible. It’s very flat up there, and I kept back from the edge since I don’t like heights anyway, but she got mad at me for being up there since she didn’t feel comfortable coming out with me.
So a couple minutes later, I’m done poking about, and I turn around and she’s nowhere to be seen. Now I’m worried she went over the side and something happened to her. I started looking over the edge of the hill leading up to the falls and trying to see if she’s down there, but there was enough water to still be spraying the rocks. My foot slides out on a wet patch, and now I’m falling down the rock face!
I crashed off at least 3 ledges on my way down, and was flipping over and trying to grab onto things to catch myself, but there was nothing but rock and moss, but I finally come to a stop. I have no clue how I didn’t die or break anything. It was one of the scariest moments of my life. After I checked on my own life, I saw she wasn’t there, so I made my way to the car. She was there just being annoyed.
She seemed to think I deserved it for not listening to her for saying it was dangerous, while it was not the activity I was doing that led to me falling, but that I thought I needed to be looking for her after she disappeared without saying she was going to the car. I don’t think she must have realized it was not just one rock I fell off of, but probably at least 10+ feet of rock, but needless to say I wasn’t very appreciative of her lack of concern. I was just grateful to be alive at that point. I was sore for a few days and had some bruises that lasted a couple months. Was I a jerk? I don’t feel so, but I don’t believe remote places in the outdoors are the place to put arguments ahead of everyone’s safety either way. If I would have gotten hurt badly, who knows how long she would have sat there before looking for me.
Damn, you’re both lucky things didn’t go worse. “I told them it was too dangerous, then I left them alone anyway, and they died from their injuries” would be a hell of a thing to have on one’s conscience, let alone one thing to admit on the defendant’s stand.
I mean, you’re (presumably) an adult who can take responsibility for your own actions, but if she was truly concerned for your safety, abandoning you makes no sense. No matter how skilled my partner might be, I’d be waiting at the edge watching like a hawk, not saying anything, just making sure their stunt didn’t end the way I feared it would. There’s plenty of time for arguments about it when we’re both back on solid ground. Literally turning away and walking off at the height of a dangerous act while alone in nature doesn’t say “I’m concerned about your safety” as much as it says “I’m emotionally-immature and can’t prioritize your actual well-being above my personal feelings.”
Glad to hear she’s an ex.
You are very correct. We both could have regretted the events much more than we did.
When I see parents take their smaller children places, I count them as “not dangerous.”
This is where I was.
People will photograph each other chilling there all the time. I don’t want to get close enough to see over the edge since I don’t like heights, I just wanted to walk on the creekbed.
This is still at the top of the falls, but more indicitive of the side of the falls where she “disappeared” on me and what I was looking for her in. What I bounced off on the way down was three or so of those big boulders to the right of the tree there.
IMO, that incident was ¾ your fault.
I’m sure I deserve partial credit. I was in a bad place mentally back then so I did a lot of stupid and inconsiderate things I regret. But I’m also now with someone who wouldn’t walk away from me even when I am being an idiot because they care about my safety, so I learned a lot of lessons since then.
MJ and a new partner – he was not exactly her boyfriend, and the pair were not exclusive…[MJ] could not shake the feeling that something was “off”; indeed, MJ would learn on this trip that her partner was seeing other women.
This is like saying you agreed to go dutch on a date, and then feeling that something was “off” because you couldn’t shake the feeling he was intending to split the bill.
No shit?
Articles like this are 99% trash
So are some comments.
So two or three “credible” stories over a century qualify for this headline? Seems a bit inflated.
I mean… it’s not a nice thing to do to someone but… eh…
Some people, not anyways men, have been taught, rather mercilessly, that they have to be self sufficient. These people get aggravated, even angry when someone else fails to live up to the standard that they (unfairly) were forced to. There can be an instinctive feeling that it is somehow an injustice to them.
That doesn’t excuse abandoning someone in the wilderness. Often these people struggle to learn to be a kind helper.
Also, none of this is meant to excuse the behavior. It is possible to understand “why” without condoning it. When confronting this it is important to be firm that it is unacceptable, as well as understanding that it may be a struggle to relearn.
I would never leave my girlfriend stranded on a hike. I need her for if there is a bear.
Co-opting alpine divorce, which regularly involves a murder attempt, feels weird? Just call it the sierra split.
I do wonder how much of this is a cheapening of the weekend getaway, where you’d go to a B&B upstate, find out your potential partner snores, drinks to much, is rude to service workers, or views a toothbrush as optional. You’d sigh and split. It’s just a bad weekend.
But with this, camping and hiking is a complication. You’re drinking warm filtered water from a Nalgene, eating granola because someone forgot to bring a lighter. Also, it’s raining and all your socks are wet. Did you bring anything to wash dishes? Ah, there are no dishes. You smell like smoke and are covered in sand.
Granted, you can do camping/hiking well, but I’d bet some of these cases are from people doing it poorly, trying to save a buck by avoiding more expensive weekend getaways.
but I’d bet
So no proof then. Guesses don’t count.
Ok your honor I’m sure they’ll follow the rules of the courtroom next time
Balanced take. This kind of thing is very veryserious. But also a dilution of the term Alpine Divorce, which people have died from.
“We need to talk” has now been replaced by “We need to go for a hike.”
I imagine a good way to make your significant other sweat in that region is to leave your hiking boots by the door.
This sounds like what they called the starlight tours out in Saskatchewan.
deep racism where many people were outright murdered.
This shit going on with women is not seen as serious overall by society. It’s so very fucked up in two different fronts
Every day I’m thankful that I’m not romantically interested in men.
same bro. same
Well, maybe you can be a lesbian one day if you try hard enough.
