Why YSK: because what seems like equal situation from surface isn’t always equal opportunity for all. And even when equal measure of help is provided, it might not be equally useful.
Equality should be in protection of rights. People are not equal, and never will be. They should have equal rights, though.
Steve Vai is a better guitarist than I am. He shouldn’t have his fingers broken so that we both have equal ability to play the guitar.
Trying to make people equal in every way is evil. It only brings the best in every field down to the level of the worst, since there’s no way to bring everyone up to the level of the best in every field.
That’s not the point of equity. The point is to compensate for disadvantages people couldn’t prevent and can’t fix on their own. Stairs are equal. They work the same way for everyone. But someone in a wheelchair can’t climb stairs.
In practice that’s equity programs work by hurtingsomeone. Some California schools cut advanced math classes because they weren’t diverse enough, or it was contributing to an educational gap, or some bullshit. Equity requires adding burden to someone, it may be in an attempt at fairness, but that doesn’t make it right.
In practice that’s equity programs work by hurtingsomeone
[citation needed]
Equality people: “Let’s fund these people who are objectively poor, they are disadvantaged and need it.”.
Equity people: “let’s fund people part of this group I can clearly identify by looking at them. They are likely to be disadvantaged.”
Not sure why everyone is downvoting any opinion that isn’t “give minorities all the available resources!”.
It should not be: you need x% of your classroom seats to go to minorities. That’s silly because talented and driven people will be sent away to make space. It should be more like: “you must provide an avenue to help those who can prove disadvantaged status to take extra classes and then reapply to your program.” These classes could be online or whatever to make it as easy as possible for someone with less means but still driven to succeed have a way to better themselves.
But you can reframe it. People don’t have equal mobility but everyone has an equal right to access a place, so you have stairs and ramps. You can’t make everything a ramp or stair to create equality.
That’s not how equity works in practice. It doesn’t examine anyone’s actual capabilities or disadvantages. They bucket large groups of people into categories they deem worthy to receive resources, despite their actual need. Every person has their individual story, challenges, and priveleges yet equity assumes otherwise, that you deserve compensation based on the group you were assigned to, not what you actually need.
Nobody is advocating for breaking fingers. Following the example set by the image, if someone were to have, for example, issues with their hands, then they should be provided tools to help them play the guitar. Do you think someone with a disability shouldn’t be allowed to do things even though tools to let them do those things exist? Keeping up such barriers is how we miss out on amazing talents hampered by obstacles that could be overcome provided adequate access.
I think what he was saying, but slightly missed, was, if both people needed guitar classes, we should not give the guy with the hand issues the only available seat.
Really though, if we just spend a bit more on education, there could be seats for everyone! So maybe the last picture could be fertilizing the tree to make it bigger or something.
“Hmmm, he’s in a wheelchair so we’ll make things equal by chopping off your legs.”
I guess that meme I keep seeing that’s asks “did we leave all the stupid people on reddit?” Was wrong.
Y’all can’t understand a few simple metaphorical images that looks like it was designed for children to understand, and are going all out in contriving obtuse reasons for why it doesn’t work or isn’t realistic.
Yes, of course if this was real she could walk to the other side, but it’s a fucking metaphor.
It’s just such a bad metaphor. Not simple, bad.
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I like the boxes and fence one more, this just feels super-contrived
But that one always brings out the smug responses about how they shouldn’t be watching the game for free, totally (and purposefully) missing the point
My favorite is the meme edit where they just chop off everyone’s legs so that they end up at the same height below the fence.
Fatality!
I like owning a home because I finally got some equality.
Capitalism: hire an apple picking expert to pick the apples and sell them at exorbitant prices because there is a monopoly on apples.
Communism: send the apple picking expert to work in the steel factory and get a random university professor to pick them instead
No mate, communism is having state managed Apple pickers that pick apples and give them to manager. Management keeps 40% apples for themselves and then divide rest between the whole town, so that everyone in town gets one tiny piece of apple, whether they like apples or not.
Communism: send the apple picking expert to work in the steel factory and get a random university professor to pick them instead
Why? He’s an expert in that, if we don’t have steel mill experts we can train willing participants. Experts should always flow to their field of expertise
The steel mill experts were purged for saying that sending literally everyone to work on smelting steel is unsustainable.
I love that the commies on here ignore the fact that every communist government to date had to rely on mass purges and persecution to rule and STILL became utterly corrupt and generated an elite ruling class. I’m not saying capitalism is the way, truth, and light, but holy fuck for as smart as the fediverse commies think they are, they are woefully blind to history. At this point, even western european-style socialism is a reach for the US but these guys want a commie revolution? These idiots want blood on the walls and meanwhile I just want my four year old to have a decent future.
There’s an argument to be made that some people need a guiding hand when it comes to caring for others or to act in ways that are beneficial for others and themselves, but it seemed like most tankies on Reddit at least were anti-west contrarians. Nominally they were anti-imperialist but always ignored non-western imperialism.
I think he’s referring to Soviet Russia specifically, where farmers were sent to factories or turned into impromptu pig iron producers because of misguided heavy handed top down policies.
The Justice pic: a man yells at the kids stealing apples from his garden, while the kids are running away, loosing all the apples.
How is giving college scholarships or preferential admissions to one and only one specific group anything but inequality?
Its the equity stage. Certain socioeconomic groups have fewer educational opportunities earlier in life. We should really move on to justice and fix that. But first, we need equity to help people now and make up for that.
That’s horseshit. Some poor person living right next door to some other poor person has access to X scholarship but the neighbor doesn’t. They went to the same schools growing up. Their parents make comparable money, but magically only one of them could get a free ride scholarship or gets easier access to school.
That’s not going to breed resentment. Nooo. Not at all.
Because money doesn’t cover the whole issue. Two people starting at the same economic point, one is statistically more likely to have downward economic mobility compared to the other based on race. There are people in our society actively being held back.
I’m pretty far left, and even I felt resentment as a first-generation college grad from a lower middle class background that had to go into massive debt for law school. A friend of mine had Pilipino and black parents that were college educated and quite well off, but she had a free ride to law school because of her skin color instead of her grades, despite having far less financial need than I did. There’s no reason a poor white yokel and a poor black kid, both of whom have substantial structural and cultural barriers keeping them from accessing higher education, should be treated differently. I am not denying history, or saying that systemic racism isn’t a thing, but history and systemic racism shouldn’t be justifications for furthering inequality.
You don’t solve racism with MORE racism.
And “reverse racism” is no different than any other racism.
Yet that is exactly what is happening. And people see it happening and it turns off some of the same people who would otherwise support your cause. This is a situation that breeds resentment, and stories like the ones posted over the last few days where a LOT of young white males are turning to right-wing groups should not be a surprise to anyone. These terribly thought-out policies are pushing many white (as well as Asian and Indian and Cuban) voters away from left-leaning causes because they feel they are being excluded. The Left is fighting racism in the dumbest way possible… with more racism, and SHOCKINGLY it is blowing up in their faces.
You’re missing the larger point. It isn’t about individuals.
If your parents and grandparents were from an ethnic/social/other group that did not have access to resources, then there’s less chance that you grow up in a household that values education or have resources like food, time with parents and caring adults, emotional support and, financial security and so on. These affect your academic success irrespective of how talented or smart you might be.
Providing better access to higher education for people from such groups is a way to make sure that their children don’t grow up in the same environment and the problem is solved over generations.
Such measures of equity are always stop gap measures to address problems until you find grass root level solutions. Right now say protected groups might be first Nations or African Americans. In the future that might change to immigrants from Ukraine or Honduras.
Meanwhile a neighborhood over, the kids don’t need scholarships.
Both scenarios breed resentment.
We need better answers, like… free public education, better schools, tutoring supplements for those who ask (including high acheivers), and it needs to go through uni and trades.
We can’t keep having people left behind because of structural issues. Poor decisions happen and it’s nice to soften blows where we can. But if a person commits no errors and ends up paycheck to paycheck for the rest of their life… that’s a failed society.
We need to transcend the “they get x and we don’t” part of this and get onto the real thing.
We have need based programs to address people who need help. Why not bolster to those? Why focus on shifting resources/programs away from the poor to people who objectively don’t need it as much? We know how much people need, we can measure income.
How much money/time/reaources are going into programs, grants, scholarships that target single demographics?
We could also just shoot the kulak on the left and take back the apples she stole from the people’s tree
Ah yes, the communist solution.
The revolutionary solution, not necessarily communist. Like Boston tea party and what followed
I appreciate the image, but “justice” as it’s described from the image, isn’t what people want progressively.
I used to agree with the picture, everyone should be tested fairly.
Expectations are a bit different though. Execution of what I’ve seen the public want is the Equality picture, but parties switch ladders.
Modern equality isn’t about fairness, it’s about your turn to benefit from the unfairness that’s always inherent in the system. We don’t want to change the system as much as we want our turn.
Life is never fair. The only things that change are perspectives and volume.
This is a helpful explanation. The distinction between these terms is not so obvious and people believe they know the meanings without comprehending them.
What if one person is more skilled at apple picking or the other just wants to stand on the ground
then they’d still have the same opportunities and one could choose to stay off the ladder instead of picking apples?!
Hey, please edit your post to follow rule 1 and rule 2. Thank you (:
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Why should we alter the tree just for the beneficiaries liking
We designed the tree, so we should fix the tree now that we realize it has problems. The analogy is to the society that we created.
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Key takeaway: Always blame the system
This is one of my least favorite Rush songs…
Justice is Occupational health and safety inspection telling them they are not allowed to use such leaders and especially not unsupervised.
