Europe is not as different from the US as it likes to pretend, especially politically.
Racism is not a unique or exceptionally American phenomenon, and the things I’ve heard from otherwise progressive Europeans can fucking curdle milk equal or in excess to what people in my ultra-rural ultra-conservative home region of the US can say.
I’ve had good friends who were Europeans studying here, and they can definitely be very insensitive and racist. What makes the two flavors of racism different to me is American racism is typically very confrontational, tribalistic. White man calling a black man a slur, and there’s something cavalier about it, maybe even humorous on the part of the racist.
Europeans have a much more “it is the way it is” attitude. I’ve heard friends talk very disparagingly about interracial couples, or blacks in general, and the attitude is less “hate for hate’s sake” but instead “it is the wrong way to be and my way is correct”. Fascinatingly, when you point out the bigotry, my friends have typically refused to accept their bias (at best), and will deny they’re racist.
I’ve heard Europeans call Turks ‘filthy’ and ‘roaches’ and Africans ‘monkeys’. And don’t get me started on the things said about the Romani.
I don’t think there’s a difference in how tribalistic or vicious it is.
Making sure I’m reading this right…I know a guy who claims he isn’t sexist but that it is OK to pay women less because they aren’t as good at some things as men. So in his mind, it isn’t sexist to pay women less or even claim they should be paid less - even though it is.
Is that similar to what you’re saying?
Not a bad way of comparing it tbh
Wow, you’ve really succinctly put it best! Being a European myself, this is how I constantly feel when I hear racist shit in my daily life (mainly from family).
It’s like, people here just can’t even fathom that what they’re saying is racist, that they’re racist, because to them what they’re saying is just a simple fact of life that everybody accepts. They don’t show open animosity towards minorities or throw racial slurs like you’d see more in America (though there is definitely some of that here too don’t get me wrong), but it’s a very casual, low-key form of racism where folks comment on X group of people all being one way and no one batting an eye for example.
And if you so much as suggest they’re racist, or the country they’re in has or had issues with racism and other issues of oppression, a lot will legit fight you tooth and nail over it because they can’t handle the notion of it.
It’s really freaking weird and took me a lot of time to be conscious of it myself, since I grew up surrounded by this sort of attitude.
And it’s not just right-leaning people doing this. Some minorities like the Romani are openly discriminated by just about everyone across the political spectrum, the degree just varies. And then based on the country you’ll typically see a lot of Xenophobia towards the bigger migrant groups.
And even then the European countries that feel they’re ahead of the rest tackling racism it’s usually only the urban university educated talking with their fingers in their ears ignoring the majority of the rest of their country.
The things I’ve heard far too many Europeans of various nationalities say about MENA, Desi, Turkish, and Romani folk just… makes my skin crawl.
America has a deep racism problem, and it is both right and necessary to acknowledge it. But those who pretend that Europe doesn’t have a deep racism problem are either not paying attention or in denial - especially considering recent political developments.
I have been surprised by how racist many Brits are
sexist too.
You guys should start bulking up your militaries. At best, the US will completely abandon you, and I really don’t want to think about worst-case scenario as I live in the US.
yall need to get off the high horse and take a joke sometimes. you terrorized the entire world via colonization for hundreds of years through modern day, if people harmlessly stereotype the german or french, make fun of british people, or tease the dutch language, yall can handle it
for context, im american. we get bullied all the time, and while not all americans are fat and stupid, the combination of that many are and that we’ve terrorized the world plenty make me think a lil teasing is fair
Yes it’s perfectly fair and most of us don’t mind.
Based on the comments it looks like Europeans weren’t ready to hear some of these things. 😉 Let me pile on…
Innovation in Europe is stiffled due to a risk-averse culture, complex regulatory environments, fragmented markets across different countries, limited access to venture capital, and a tendency for established companies to be less receptive to new ideas from startups, making it harder for innovative companies to scale up (compared to the US).
Start-ups in the US benefit from an immediate market of 400 million people. The EU should be able to enjoy a similar benefit but you are right about the red tape. Obviously Brexit in the UK was a total anathema to that as well.
Ain’t no way you gonna put all of Europe into that statement. You do understand that each country have their own system, policies and regulatory laws?
The problem here is that what you’re saying is maybe true for a handful of countries while completely false and inaccurate for a handful of others.
We’re not one single entity. Your statement is just not accurate as a whole.
I thought America was racist until I saw a member of UK Parliament tweeting about a boat of migrants sinking with “Good riddance”.
There is still a lot of racism in America. I would not be surprised if I saw that from an American politician.
How would people who live outside of Europe know what Europeans are not ready to hear? As someone who lives in the U.S. I know only a couple of people IRL who live in Europe.
The thing my European friend was not ready to hear was that all his complaining about the social programs in his home country and the high taxes and so on comes across as entitled and spoiled. Because he’s never lived without the benefits of a state that will provide healthcare and so on, he is free to complain about his privileges and glorify the U.S. as a place where individual citizens fill in the responsibilities that the government should fulfill. He sees this as an unmitigated good, because he thinks it means more civic engagement.
What he doesn’t understand is that this results in most people falling through the cracks, and until he falls through one of those cracks himself it won’t be real to him how bad it is to not be able to afford losing wages because you are sick or injured, or what it’s like when you can’t afford to see a doctor when you break a bone or get so sick you can’t leave your house.
That said, I’m not sure every European needs to hear this, or that they’re not ready to hear it - just this one person seemed to be a little delusional and to have idealized the U.S. as some kind of right-wing libertarian utopia.
How would people who live outside of Europe know what Europeans are not ready to hear?
-Goes on to do exactly that
Bröther
You take your lööps for granted, Eurøpeans. Your Sïster grows weary.
A Møøse once bit my sister…
does she prowl the forests fighting bandits with her newfound møøse powers?
French food is wildly overrated, as is Paris.
If there’s anything Europeans know to be true, it’s that Paris is a giant tourist trap. Not worth it imo.
I love Paris with all my heart. And can absolutely agree, it’s a giant tourist trap.
What the french DID for food historically cannot be understated, but times change.
Smoking kills.
Why wouldn’t Europeans be ready to hear that? Pretty sure we’ve been hearing it on a regular basis since the 70’s
Europe as a whole is swinging too far too the right. Y’all all are descending back into Fascism. The recent popularity of the AfD in Germany being a prime example. My own parents - who immigrated from Germany - are deeply disappointed in the direction the country is taking.
Pot, Kettle, Black. The US Republican party is about as, if not more fascist than the German AfD or Austrias FPÖ.
In comparison, the US Democrats are about where European conservatives can be located on the political spectrum.
This does not imply that the current political direction is not problematic.
European car manufacturers largely suck ass, I’d rather buy a Hyundai or a damn Nissan than some French or German piece of crap.
Wish I could update my 10yo vw golf (which has served me very well) for something not electric. I know, I know, but I’m renting a flat, with a parking space, and only way to charge an electric would be on the street overnight, which is very inconvenient as well as damaging
Edit: but what I meant is you don’t know what you’re talking about
Great, go do the brakes with standard tools, oh wait, you have to use a special “triple square” tool instead of having a standard hex bolt like every other car. And on and on with the bullshit.
It takes me places though. I’m not a mechanic 🤷♂️
It still increases the cost of ownership and issues with reliability.
I’d buy a European car before a Hyundai/Kia.
I am guessing you are from America. I am aware of the figures in terms of reliability, and Japanese manufacturers do a clean sweep in that area, and have done for decades. If that is your only metric, then you may be correct. German cars require religiously regular servicing, and will go wrong if this doesn’t happen fastidiously.
The US market get given a different range from many manufacturers. The VW range is objectively quite toned down in style and build quality. I presume because they would piss all over the domestic market if they didn’t.
Get into a hyundai or a Nissan in Europe and the difference in build quality, materials, aesthetic design and textures are worlds apart.
I have had a range of cars over the 30 years I have been driving, and this is my experience in the UK.
When you are forced to buy a car just to maintain a job or not be run over on your way to get groceries on the transportation “infrastructure” provided by American cities, reliability for a car does make the top of the list.
I did not see it that way. When you say it like that I guess that would change my perspective a little too.
Many of us I the US want to come there, and we’re willing to contribute, but the barriers of entry are too high. I likely won’t be able to until after retirement and that probably won’t be until I’m too old to move. And I have a lot to contribute if I could find a way to get on my feet. The US doesn’t allow for building enough wealth to start a business right out of the gate, unless you’re already born wealthy or get lucky and are willing to be exploitative, and in that case I could use a different visa to get in. Immigration isn’t all welfare cases and even with those who do need that help having a system in place to allow then to contribute while they get on their feet would benefit everyone. Dump the idea that you need to be extreme capitalists like the US and start embracing the people who need help to get started and most of them will contribute significantly as they will be so prideful of the place that took them in.
I’m not sure what you mean is hard? Besides uprooting and establishing a new life in a different culture ofc.
To my country a travel visa of three months is automatic/not needed from the US.
A work visa requires proof of employment at a more than minimum wage job, something like a skilled chef, contractor or entry level college grad job qualifies. After two years you can job hop, four years you get a permanent visa, after five you can apply for citizenship.
Requirements at each of these steps is that you can show you have a valid passport, the means to support yourself (and family) financially, are following laws and regulations, and remember to file the paperwork. No tests, no language requirements, just bureaucracy, patience and making a new life.
If you’re in a high demand profession, a work visa takes 90 days to get and is valid for at least two years.
This is for my country, you can typically check with the consulate for whatever country you’re interested in and they will happily inform you.
Maybe we can work out a sort of a swap deal? We have all kinds of people believing that the only merit possible is by working late and licking the managers boots. A lot of rightwing nutcases too…
So which country/ies are you aiming for? The language barrier is one reason why people don’t just move around that much inside the EU I guess.
Yes, let’s trade…lol
Language would be a problem, but I could survive with Spanish, so probably Spain. I could learn other Latin or Germanic languages pretty easily though if needed. I know a little Dutch from a job I had that sent me there a few times and Portuguese or Italian is close enough to Spanish that combined with the English similarities I could pick up eventually. But work requires more than a basic grasp of language, especially if I have to start in the service industry or something. So Spain would probably be the quickest.
The biggest barrier is the requirements for having housing already and having to pay for it while not being in the country while waiting for the Visa. Housing in the US takes half or more of most people’s salary. For me it’s more and I am a software architect in my late 40s, though I do live on the west coast in a major city which is more expensive. But I don’t have a car payment because of public transportation which has allowed me to keep my older cars a lot longer, which doesn’t exist in most of the US.
Don’t forget english can be something useful in computer jobs, am a cs guy myself and in France its appreciated.
So how hard is it to get a visa? I mean the rest will follow, just rent a shitty 1 bedroom for starters and work your way forward, as long as you have a job it will work
It’s not quite that easy. You need the job and lease first. Finding a job without speaking the language that well is a lot. And honestly, even as someone who makes a moderately high salary compared to the majority in my country, I still am not middle class and don’t have the ability to rent an apartment in France and pay up front for health insurance in addition to my mortgage and living costs. The number of work visas are also limited depending on the country.
And it’s risky. What if the job doesn’t work out and ends too close to the Visa renewal time to find another. Not to mention you have to leave the country for some time to get the new visa. I’d have to have the ability to move back to the US until I could find new employment while still maintaining the apartment in France or wherever. That might be OK for someone with a big family to support them back home, but most of us don’t have that. It’s not part of our culture.
And finally, work visas are a system designed for employers to abuse foreign employees with the threat of being deported if the employer decides not to renew. In most countries (including the US most of which has lax employment laws anyway) the employer doesn’t even need to technically fire the employee, just decide not to renew their visa.
Not Eurpoe specifically but I shared a rather basic comment on YouTube joking about Great Britain causing famines in India but its okay because they brought trains and the result is a mile long thread of pissed off UK suckers telling me I’m wrong, that there was no fammine, the Wikipedia article and its 300 sources are fake, and that the British empire totally went around modernizing civilization for the benefit of humanity. (Was a post about Irish complaining about a very crappy Irish History book made by a British author)
So I guess for any of those people, no GB was just a colonist empire racing to exploit the hell out of resources faster than France, Spain, and Portugal. The technology they brought was used almost exclusively in their conquest operations (Trains used to transport goods and resources) and they actively supported and supplied opposition groups to destabilize and overthrow governments similar to what the USA does today.
I mean seriously, they held immense power over China via opium and are responsible for practically every shill state in the middle east because they provided weapons to overthrow the Ottaman empire.
The iconic pan arab flag is actually a British designed flag given to all the opposition groups they funded to break up Ottaman power.
They fell apart after exhausting their power in WWII and the USA came in to save them so now they gleefully cheer about how they carried in WWII with intelligence services as if Germany couldn’t have easily invaded the entire nation overnight had Hitler not been an incompetent moron.
Thankfully, after exploiting half the world, they totally didn’t spend the last of their power screwing over every former colony into some long term problem that they could exploit without the need for military power.
Apparently soccer is offensive even though I grew up in AYSO. i got in the habit of calling them association football and gridiron football, respectively.
I thought the corruption of the leagues and the fanatcism of the US is bad and scary. Then I learned about FIFA. i had no idea.
FIFA is not European, just because its headquarters are there.
The kind of corruption you see there is more typical of South America. And it was a Brazilian who took it from yet another sport to the scale it is now.
It’s aluminum. Y’all just changed it to aluminium so it sounded like other elements. Which is even funnier because not all elements end with ium despite that being the main reason for the change.
Welcome to the magic world of etymology in Europe.
I have a vague memory of looking this up and the guy that named it intended it to use the american pronounciation but the european spelling, so fuck that guy I guess?
The American South equals the European East
but… we already know this
