Personally, I gave up at the first fight in Bloodborne (I have 40 min of gameplay). Never touched a souls game ever again.
For real, I’ve got shit to do. Old-school boss fights requiring a ridiculous degree of flawless repetition was an expression of hardware limitations at the time, not a fun feature to get nostalgic about. People can spend their time as they wish, but for my money the artificially ramped-up difficulty for its own sake is a cancer on game design, not something to develop a sense of elitism about.
Souls have pretty hard bosses… but mostly, they are just optional content. Main story isn’t that difficult in my experience.
It’s not that I don’t appreciate a challenge. I used to love difficult games. I grew up in the NES era when difficulty was the only thing that kept games from being completed in 30 minutes.
But life moves on and we get busy. If I get 2-3 hours in a week to game it’s a miracle. I am not going to spend that time grinding a boss for hours.
But other difficult games may be fine. Specifically, rogelikes. Slay the Spire and Dead Cells are games that can be very difficult, but the games are designed to be taken on in short chunks with an entire run taking under an hour, whereas Souls-Like games expect a lot more time commitment.
I really enjoyed the Respawn Jedi games. They’re Souls-likes with difficulty sliders that should appease anyone.
I play both of these and loved em. I also poured 50 hours into beating cuphead. Difficulty isn’t a problem if the depth of the game is a pool instead of a sea.
I think Hades/Hades did it great. Brutally difficult at first, but with an optional mode to make it easier each time you die, and full runs taking about 30 minutes.
And making failure a part of the story that allows you to maintain progression despite dying is also neat.
The only thing I’d really like to see changed is making an optional twist on God Mode where every time you lose it gets easier, but every time you win it gets harder.
Kojima:
We added Very Easy Mode
Also Kojima:
Get good or wear the chicken hat
Difficulty settings are accessibility settings and anyone who disagrees can kiss my ass.
As long as the setting accommodates everyone, including people who want a difficult game
Yeah that’s the point at least in my eyes. I don’t see why it has to be one way or the other. You have absolutely nothing to lose and everything to gain from difficulty accessibility options. If someone sees difficulty as some sort of status symbol… Well, don’t project that onto me.
Making a game hard for the sake of making it hard is a cheap way to increase difficulty.
The challenge shouldn’t come from enemies being damage sponges or the AI having superhuman reaction times. It should come from player skill.
Balatro is one of the best examples of this. The game naturally gets easier as the player learns its systems and gains experience through playing.
Destiny 2 also had excellent skill progression. Say what you want about the game as a whole, but the core gunplay and the mechanics of its three classes rewarded players for improving their own abilities.
Even games like Madden and NBA 2K have, to a lesser extent, systems that reward player skill rather than simply inflating difficulty.
Many older games were made extremely difficult because they were relatively short. The increased difficulty extended playtime and made players feel they were getting more value for the price. That’s one of the reasons games like Ninja Gaiden on the NES earned their reputation for being brutally hard.
As for Soulslike games, they’re simply not my cup of tea. I fully acknowledge that they’re well-made games, and if you enjoy them, that’s great. They’re intentionally designed to be challenging. While the original Dark Souls was developed under a tight schedule and has some rough edges, its high level of difficulty was a deliberate design choice rather than the result of bugs or glitches.
Making enemies soak up more damage and deal more damage is lazy difficulty. Giving enemies more tools to use against the player is the better way to handle game difficulty IMO
Balatro is one of the best examples of this. The game naturally gets easier as the player learns its systems and gains experience through playing.
Isn’t this the case for most Roguelites? It’s not even necessarily player skill, so much as unlocking permanent upgrades (Jokers in Balatro, abilities/cards in Across the Obelisk or Slay the Spire, stat boosts and weapon modifiers in Hades, etc.).
Rogue like or did you mean rogue lite?
I meant rogue-lite. They’re technically different genres. Rogue-lites allow for permanent bonuses/boosts over time like the games I mentioned. Roguelikes do not (old school games like Rogue and Nethack, for example) and every game is a fully fresh start.
fully fresh start.
Technically, Nethack will let you encounter your own graves from previous runs, so you can pick up your gear from last time (although usually it’s mostly cursed).
Souls ganes has easy modes. Usually there’s an OP build or archetype which makes the game much easier
I think Souls games went too far tho. If we stayed at DS1 level that’d be one thing, but the Elden Ring DLC just went stupid with it.
There’s a lot of “you made your art wrong” in here. If you don’t have legs, you’re not going to be able to play soccer. You can make your own no-leg soccer if you want, but I’m just going to make an “ew” face at you if you say that soccer needs to change for you. Try arm wrestling!
The best argument against games (or any software) that don’t work for you is that you often can’t get refunds, and that’s a valid concern, but it has nothing to do with the content itself.
A nonverbal person joined one of hubs Delta green games on discord and he accommodated it but was confused as to why they didn’t just join one of the text chat based games on the same server. His theory is they were just used to getting whatever they wanted because they then proceeded to insist on playing a shadowrun character until they just kind of broke down that it wasn’t working with the game and ghosted.
Both are perfectly acceptable philosophies, but many Souls players need to learn that losing at a game for 150 hours is not what other people find fun.
Most of us get that, but non souls player must also understand that dark souls on easy mode is just a bad game. There are no big cinematics, the story is scarce, there are only a few npcs. Those are games that puts you on your toes, you must be wary at all times, and learn to master the game bit by bit. It’s not for everyone, or everytime (I think everyone can play souls game but they need to be in the right mindset) but they are my favorite games. But yeah gatekeepers suck
Why? Do Souls players not accept others not liking the games? Thats not my experience but maybe many are like that?
Also, usually Souls players dont lose for 150 hours straight. Most of the time its winning, but sometimes youre set back a bit and sometimes youre stuck. Some people like earning their wins. Some dont deal well with the difficulty and get frustrated, I get thats not fun for them. To each their own.
Why does everyone think every game has to be made for the lowest common denominator? If you don’t like a game, don’t play it. Besides, souls games can actually be quite forgiving, the difficulty adjustments just isnt in sliders. Especially in elden ring, you can beat every fight in a pretty brainless (i mean like not needing to dodge almost at all) way if you take the time to set up for it.
I tried Dark Souls and I tried Demon Souls.
It’s not my thing, but I’m glad they are a lot of other people’s cup of tea
Difficulty options aren’t there to offer different experiences with a game, they’re there to offer the same experience to players of different skill levels. People who are better at Dark Souls are playing it and its clones at a reduced difficulty compared to people who are worse at it.
But the more you play the better you get…
Like hell. I hit my skill ceiling in these games a long time ago, and I’m not getting any younger.
Maybe, but that’s okay. Not every game needs to be for every player. I used to be very much into action heavy games, even did a big Nintendo Blockbuster tournament back when I was a kid and placed 4th regionally. And I was really big into the 2D fighting scene, particularly Street Fighter 3 and Guilty Gear series.
I’m in my 40s now, and I don’t really play those kinds of games much anymore. Action heavy games are fun from time to time, but they make my hands hurt. Also, I just don’t have the time to learn the meta, pokes, skills and strategies for fighting games anymore. And button mashing (like Mortal Kombat’s “test your might” sections) is right out. I don’t see the issue. Time marches on and we enjoy the things we can.
These days I’m more likely to play RPGs, indie, and retro games, with occasional dips into modern games, and while I still like fighting games, I’m more inclined to play ones that have a single player campaign and lower skill ceiling, like Soul Calibur 6. Anything with tons of button mashing or joystick waggling for range setting will have my hands hurting over time if I keep at it.
🤷. I’m old.
I don’t mind any of these approaches. Personally I’d want a single difficulty that is made challenging but with specific accessibility options. Like disable quick time events, loose lock on, and other things to make the interface more bearable if you have a physical or mental disability.
While I don’t care if a game has an easy mode, a lot of the “easy mode is accessibility” arguments feel similar to the “AI art is accessibility” arguments. Unless you can’t properly interface with the game, having low skill is not a disability or something needing accessibility support. If you practice you’ll get better at it.
The “but I don’t have much time” argument feels especially weird, like would you demand a cliff notes version of a book or TV show because you don’t have the time otherwise? If you just want the story just find a playthrough online.
If a game has an easy mode, great, it appeals to a wider audience. If it doesn’t, great, it’s catering to a specific audience. A game’s not worse for having an easy mode and a game’s not inaccessible for asking you to practice its mechanics.
The “but I don’t have much time” argument feels especially weird, like would you demand a cliff notes version of a book or TV show because you don’t have the time otherwise?
Sweet Summer child…
Yes, there are dummies like that. I remember reading about someone actually bragging about “reading more” by asking for book summaries via AI.
Yeah I know about those services, though I wish I didn’t…
Match the type of a game, sheesh.
Bethesda like open world? Gimmie difficulty levels - nothing will change with them except that people will be able to tailor the experience more.
Narrative and/or choice heavy game? Leave difficulty choice off to let the original vision of the author speak for itself - havimg parts too easy or hard due to watered down or pumped up difficulty can ruin the story.
Arcade/Dark Souls games? I…don’t really see reasons for difficulty settings here except for harder than baselines ones? Like new game +. In these games, learning patterns and gettimg good is the game, there is no way around it.
All in all - not every game is for everyone, we have genres for a reason. Having difficulty tailored for arcades in open world exploration game makes no sense just as much as having watered down difficulty levels in narrative heavy games.
The first philosophy is why so many modern AAA games are complete crap. Why not just have FMV of the actors doing the scene and have the audience press X to continue to the next scene?
One of these days, maybe we won’t even have to press X anymore! It can just go scene to scene while we relax! Imagine it!
“…to first face that challenge and to overcome it in some way that suits them as a player.”
Honestly when that player is me, this is just going to mean playing a different game. I’m old and busy, I really don’t have the time or energy for hard games.
Ninja gaiden black was such a great game.
As someone who’s done Video game QA, working with Tomonobu Itagaki doesn’t sound pleasant. Those campaign sprints are hard enough as is
I think difficulty settings are nice for letting more people play how they want without having to use mods.
I don’t care for the gatekeeping b.s.
I played RE Village with an unlimited-bullets-mod cause otherwise I couldn’t get past choke points.
I play with a controller and shooting is just not great with a joystick unless there is aim assist. Can’t recall if this game had it or not but either way I kept dying when swarmed by werewolves.
I like horror games and I get that the point is to make you anxious about ammo or health. To build tension. But I just find it frustrating sometimes.
