For those say in their 60s or 70s here. When you were in your 30’s or 40’s did you have the feeling that the world was a fucked up place? So much has been going on since I entered adulthood in the early 2000s and I feel like it’s getting more and more intense. It’s never ending.
Is it unique? Or has it always been this way?
No, no it was not.
Example: when they found out what caused the hole in the ozone layer, they fixed it.
If we found out now, people would say that you can’t trust Big Academia or Big Science and nothing would be done. And don’t get me started on vaccinations.
We’re sliding rapidly backwards.
People who say it isn’t are just too lazy to do anything.
Stopping climate change is ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE harder than protecting the ozone layer. Protecting ozone requires switching the chemicals we used in refrigerants and propellants to other, viable alternatives. That affected products worth, generously, maybe 1% of GDP?
Stopping climate changing the vast majority of the vehicles on the planet, along with the majority of our electrical power plants. It also necessitates stopping deforestation and overhauling a wide number of industrial processes, including for basic materials like steel and concrete. And that’s not even getting into methane emissions from livestock.
All of these things add up to a massive chunk of the planets GDP. It’s an extremely heavy lift, and it’s not fair to say that the world has gotten worse because we’re struggling more with climate change than the ozone hole.
No one could see the ozone hole. We had to believe science and everyone did.
meanwhile climate change is not just easier to understand, but becoming apparent in everyday life. There’s been an overwhelming consensus in science for half a century. How do people still doubt? Or what kind of hatred could make you actively resist changes to mitigate it?
You must realize terrible stuff was happening over that time period too. Yes, there is a ton of regression happening right now, but compared to any other time in history some things are better some are worse. One can probably select any two points in modern history and say the same. There are always great and terrible things happening.
You’ve never had smallpox.
You probably have never been hungry. Famine used to be a thing that just happened every ten years or so.
You’ve probably always had ready access to drinking water.
There’s always been wars, people doing terrible things. Slavery and genocide are pretty much par for the course whatever the ethnicity/region.
By most metrics this is the safest time to be alive.
But ya, shits pretty fucked still. So I say we all wake up tomorrow and try and do a little better.
I’m 57 in the US and up until the last ten years I always thought that things would get better in my lifetime and that ultimately my country would eventually choose the right financial and moral paths. Now I not only don’t believe that will happen in my lifetime but I doubt if this nation will bounce back in my kid’s lifetime, if ever.
Same age, same thoughts. The past was violent & sucky but it really felt like we were making progress, things were getting better. Some things have, there’s a lot less violence where I live, and more to do, the city has progressed.
Honestly I think the slide started after Bush vs Gore, and very often wish I had been in the other timeline, where the votes got counted before he conceded, Gore seemed conceited but smart, geeky and took good ideas seriously.
Yeah, Lemmy was always so pessimistic about the future, but everything was looking up. Lots of reasons for hope that tomorrow would be better than yesterday, my kids would inherit a better world and make it even better.
Then it all fell apart. The scary thing is not how ugly, immoral, hate filled, corrupt it is, but how quickly and easily it fell apart yet still has people supporting it
This is actually one of the best times in human history.
Not anymore. Conflict around the world has statistically shot way up. There’s also a significant increase in political polarisation around the world.
I question that. In colonial times and in tribal times, there were huge amounts of conflicts. And conflicts is only a tiny part of how the world is running. Slavery, human rights, minority treatment, just laws, poverty, standard of living, etc. On average world wide, we are far better off. The majority of the people in the first world have luxuries that only kings and nobles used to have.
Between the end of World War 2 and 2016 the world has seen a steady and significant decline in global conflict.
Immediately after 2016 that statistic has been shooting upward rather steeply.
That acounts for 65 of the 300 000 years humans have been alive.
Not an old person. But so to put into perspective:
My maternal grandmother was born in war-torn China after the japanese imperilists wrecked our country. Food was not even a guarantee… farming sucked…
My parents were born during the cultural revolution… the way they described stuff… all they had to eat was 番薯 (sweet potatoes?)… they say my generation had it better off…
I remember rations were said to be a common thing…
By my era, I had stable access to food. I remember being so picky and they scold me for me… “back in my day… all we had to eat was…”
I wanted more things to play with… its responded with… “back in my day… all we had to play with is…” (don’t remember the answer but they played with like rocks or sticks or strings or stuff like that)
Literally… all the food would’ve been a luxury in their era…
So like… in a way… westerners having access to food is already not bad…
I mean y’all are not being invaded by imperial japanese…
y’all not being bombed by russians in Ukraine…
y’all not being bombed by israel in Gaza
so…
(I’m not saying you should accept status quo, just trying to think positively by looking into how bad it could get…)
-From an American Citizen originally born in China in 2002
Edit: I also wanna mention the problem with people who grow up under these conditions… they had to deal with so much “real issues” that the whole topic of mental health is never a thing to them… “just get over it” as my parents say…
UGH WTF…
So yea… the west have mental health acceptance… so consider yourselves lucky…
It used to be a lot worse for the vast majority
YES. But a big chunk of people have been sheltered from that fact.
That’s why we have people: wanting civil war, because they’ve never had to personally suffer the loss, privations, and terror of a real war. Are anti-vax, because they haven’t had plagues of smallpox, the flu, or polio kill their kids, friends, and relatives. Pro-authoritarian, because they’ve never lived under a series of shitty power grifters and a corruption-based economy where absolutely nobody does well except the richest. Anti-social programs, because they’ve never faced homelessness or a disability.
There are so many things that people have had the luxury of avoiding that they’ve forgotten how shitty the world is. Spoiled children, they are.
Well, as an American, I can only speak for my lifetime…
Late 60s/Early 70s - Vietnam/Nixon - Pretty fucked up.
Late 70s - Iran hostage crisis - Fucked up.
80s - Reagan/Bush - Iran/Contra - Recession - Iraq War I - Fucked up.
90s - Clinton era was pretty good. Big scandal was a blowjob. People actively talking about blowjobs all the time.
2000s - Bush II, 9/11, Iraq War II, Abu Ghraib, 2008 financial crash - VERY fucked up.
Late 2000s - Obama - Not awful. He should have ended Bush’s drone program, but not awful.
2017-2020 - Trump. Covid. 1,000,000 dead Americans. INCREDIBLY fucked up.
Early 2020s - Biden - Fucked up inflation. Covid weirdness.
Now? (gestures)
I’m not that old…
But you’re confusing reality for perception.
The world’s been fucked up, it’s just people can see it from their phones when they used to not even hear about it
Being aware of issues doesn’t make them worse, just means we have a shot of fixing them.
As a little preface here, I teach philosophy and world religions at community colleges for a living, and so I spend a good bit of time reading texts from ancient cultures.
The relevant thing here being that it’s pretty common to find writings from just about every point in human history that talk about their own time as one of terrible injustice, iniquity, etc. often in ways that sound like they could have written today.
So, I’d wager it’s always been this way, and not just in the last century.
It’s always been this way, just the internet has made global awareness easier
Yeah, thought it was fucked up, but assumed the vast majority of people still wanted it to be better for everyone. Recent US elections, though, indicate otherwise, which is extremely depressing.
assumed the vast majority of people still wanted it to be better for everyone.
You’re still right. They’re just propagandized into believing that what’s better for a tiny minority of rich people will make things better for everyone else.
I’m not your target demographic but it’s not really a stretch to say that pretty much everything that’s happening today has happened before and will keep happening. Like others say it’s mostly because there is more coverage (and maybe some more nuance causing more opinions). Back in the 50s the US started fighting in Korea and pretty much the entire US could see why and supported it. Then when Vietnam happened, there was a bit more coverage which also caused more dissent. Since then I think petty much every 5 years or so the US has been fighting wars in the Middle East. The fight with Iran is nothing new (look up Iran-Contra for instance).
Environmental concern has been around for well over 60 years and yes, we are a lot further along but by now the smart money is on people will never be able to steer it in a positive direction so it’s pretty much damage limitation where possible.
In the end it’s not really about how fucked up global events are, it’s more about finding the light in when they all seem a bit less fucked up than it used to be.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippie_trail
The Middle East has definitely gotten worse.
It was different, there was more of what at least looked like cause->effect. People were irrational, but not directly belligerent about their irrationality. Round table talk formats didn’t seem so useless, there being people who were more learned than you giving useful explanations about what was happening in the world (that made sense). Watching them now seems like the blind leading the blind. The world was more coherent and the incoherent parts of it seemed largely marginalized and sidelined. This marginalization seemed fairly permanent, like you could count on society making progress in science and technology without regard to your stupid uncle’s sexist bullshit or your crazy aunt’s vitamin therapy and aversion to aluminum cookware. Now all of them are wrapped up in one Super Saiyan called “Secretary of Health and Human Services.”
