Revolting that this is now a “crime.”
Yep they’re trying(and succeeding at in some states) to frame women as cattle. Where the fetus no matter what the viability is, or the danger to the women’s health, and her socioeconomic status in regards to being able to raise a kid(with little to no help from the state that made her carry the fetus to term without any social safety net and if their is one it’s completely underfunded and has lack of easy access. Wtf is going on in peoples minds that think this is alright? I swear the alt right and republicans just give lip service “ small government” while they laugh all the way to the bank and damn well make sure that their daughters,wife’s, mistresses have access to those health services that is “plebs” are not privy too. /end rant
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In Nebraska, The 12-week ban includes exceptions for rape, incest and to save the life of the mother. This might indicate it was more of a socio-economic / psychological reason, which are not sufficient grounds under the law to terminate the offspring after that point.
It doesn’t matter when the effect prevents basically everyone from getting an abortion.
Not “everyone”. There are exceptions for rape, incest, and mortal danger to the mother.
Good luck getting a doctor to perform an abortion under those conditions. Whose responsibility is it to verify that the condition is met? Doctors are very afraid of being sued. Most just won’t perform any abortions just in case. This is the intended effect.
Could you imagine telling other people what medical procedures they are allowed to have?
Land of the free, my ass.
Because it is a garbage law
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“According to court documents, Celeste Burgess was in her third trimester of pregnancy when she consumed the abortion pills, making the procedure illegal as per Nebraska law.”
I think this would be illegal in almost every western country.
What would be revolting is if this wasn’t a crime. She then hid the “human remains.” I understand you’re probably pro-choice, but is this the hill you want to die on?
People like you just read the headline and reaction as if you know the whole story?
If it was easy to get an abortion earlier in the pregnancy when she wanted one, you would have a point. But you and I both know Republicans have made it next to impossible for women to get a legal abortion before whatever cutoff time have been mandated in law, especially in a deep-red shithole like Nebraska. When Republicans keep restricting access to legal abortions, things like this are going to happen. This is entirely a policy failure.
If
You gotta make a series of bold assumptions to believe her only option was to get an abortion pill at 28 weeks and hold onto the babies remains.
She had 20 weeks to get an abortion, which is more liberal than almost all progressive european countries.
Right because the GOP is famously known for making it easy to get an abortion, and definitely don’t defund abortion providers so that people have to drive for hours to get an abortion. I’m sure the odds are high she lives right next door to one of Nebraska’s three whole abortion clinics, you know?
I don’t know the exact scenario, only the facts presented in the article
The woman had 20 weeks to get an abortion, instead she took an abortion pill at 28 weeks and held onto the babies remains.
I’m sure during the 5 months, she could have found a day to drive and get an abortion if it was important to her.
I do believe there should be more abortion clinics available, but have you ever lived in a rural state? The 3 are in the largest cities in the state, where nearly 50% of the population lives.
Putting an abortion clinic in a town of 1,000 people doesn’t make sense for clinics. I think your disgust comes from your lack of understanding rural america.
Okay first of all the article doesn’t say “held onto the babies remains.” She plead guilty to removing or concealing human skeletal remains, which most likely means she buried it.
I’m sure during the 5 months, she could have found a day to drive and get an abortion if it was important to her.
See, that’s an assumption, not a fact presented in the article. You don’t know if she had access to a car, and public transportation in rural areas is known for being practically nonexistent. It’s possible she didn’t get an abortion sooner because she simply did not have the means to.
Putting an abortion clinic in a town of 1,000 people doesn’t make sense for clinics. I think your disgust comes from your lack of understanding rural america.
You realize places like Planned Parenthood don’t just perform abortions, right? They provide all kinds of other family planning and women’s healthcare services, which are useful for most women, not just those looking to get an abortion. It makes sense for them to be easily accessible to everyone. And GOP has been attacking Planned Parenthood for years specifically to make it harder for women to get abortions. What this woman went through is exactly the sort of thing that was inevitable when the Republican party attacks women’s rights.
Hard dissagree. It’s wrong in Nebraska, wrong in Germany, and wrong everywhere else where the standard is some date before birth.
That’s fine, but that still makes the comment I’m responding to absurd.
'revolting that this is now a ‘crime’ - it’s almost always been a crime in almost every civilized country for the last 200+ years.
It’s not a crime in at least seven US states, and would not be prosecuted in at least 13 more because of the vague definition of viability.
Killing a baby at 28-weeks of pregnancy and hiding the body is illegal in the vast majority of the US, including in blue states.
The actual crime she was nabbed for was illegally hiding human remains. Her mother who provided the abortion pills is the one actually going to be in a lot more trouble it sounds like.
“In May, Burgess pleaded guilty to a felony charge of removing or concealing human skeletal remains.”
Yes, I think hiding and/or stealing human remains should remain a crime.
It was always a crime to secretly force a stillbirth at 28 weeks and then bury the body without telling anyone. 28 weeks is almost 7 months (edit: math is hard). She had plenty of time to do it legally.
wow, time sure is crazy, 28 weeks for 8 months, and then 24 weeks for the remaining 4
I wish people wouldn’t talk about pregnancy in terms of months.
40 weeks is at typical pregnancy. A nice, round, simple-to-remember number.
28 weeks is a pregnancy in the 6th month, just as a matter of fact. 28 weeks is also basically the earliest you would ever call someone in the third trimester and is the earliest a pregnancy is typically thought to have the possibility of viability.
agree. fetuses can live outside the womb starting at ~24 weeks, whether you are pro life or pro choice i think (and hope) most of us can agree abortion at 28 weeks is very wrong. i dont understand how people can think otherwise. plus the article says nothing about the fetus posing any dangers to her health.
Absent more information, we cannot assert it was definitely wrong. You’ve intentionally framed this as “the article says nothing about the fetus posing any dangers to her health” which I have to assume is an intentional lie of omission. What the article actually says is nothing at all about the health of the fetus. It does not imply there was no danger to her health. It says nothing. Likely because it is an unknown.
What we do know about a 28-week abortion is that such an abortion was not part of a normal, healthy plan. Late-term abortions like this are almost certainly from someone intending to carry to term who has some kind of crisis. We do not know the nature of severity of the crisis.
In such a crisis generally, the community and the state should’ve been there to help them navigate it and reach an outcome that kept her as whole as possible while doing what is possible to keep the child alive. This was possibly a viable pregnancy. But I totally understand, especially to a teenager and in the current political environment of a place like Nebraska, being rightly too frightened to reach out for help.
28 weeks is 6.2 months.
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This has always been a crime in the US.
Third trimester. No.
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Yep. Know why she did it? Desperation + living in a state that already made it hard to get abortions, but also doesn’t provide good prenatal care. Nebraska has one of the higher infant mortality rates in the country (though it still pales in comparison to Mississippi).
You know why she did it?
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regardless, it’s the law. if you want it changed, move to Nebraska, get residency, start a grassroots campaign, get elected to State government, and draft a bill into law.
you’re free to do that, after all - self government is one of our many freedoms. many other countries don’t allow people to do anything about how the government works.
These people care more about an unborn baby than they do about the baby after it’s born. Actually sad.
If every one of these anti-abortion assholes want to start taking the babies of families who cannot raise them then it wouldn’t be seen as just a disgustingly hypocritical movement. That is not the case. If you want to start forcing women to have babies they can’t care for but you don’t want to take care of the consequences of that, you are the problem.
Nobodies out here delivering fully sized aborted babies for shits and giggles. Pregnancies are painful and traumatic enough.
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I read the article, people who stand outside abortion clinics disuading people from getting abortions when they’re within the term time is the problem. It’s also possible to have invisible pregnancies. The article doesn’t contain enough to go into but you can’t deny that protesting and harassment outside of abortion clinics would scare people away from doing it legally. Which now it’s made harder.
The article and the story presented do not include what you are talking about.
No shit, I’m questioning why she didn’t go through the usual routes to get help. You know. responding with thought on what I think about the story… what you’re complaining about
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yeah, it’s obvious that they didn’t read the article
Doesn’t seem like you read the article.
What a shithole State.
Shithole country
So weird to see people get bent out of shape over someone taking medication, especially since we do not have healthcare or childcare in this country.
Just to point out something the headline is missing:
I’m the united states 99% of abortions happen before the 21st week. For every state that has any sort of time limit on abortion, the absolute latest is the 25th week.
At some point, there needs to be a cut off. At some point we should all be able to agree that the baby is too far along to be aborted. This girl took a pill at the 28th week, which was far beyond when it was designed to be taken.
Now I don’t know if 28 weeks should be old enough for a criminal charge, but it’s definitely not as black and white as the headline makes it seem
Sure. I think that cutoff should be at birth. Because why should we have any baby born that will not be cared for?
my opinion is that the cutoff is viability. until the fetus can survive on it’s own without significant intervention, it’s not a living person. if the baby can be delivered and survive/thrive with minimal intervention, you’re past the cutoff.
but, it’s worth noting that i am not someone who can carry/deliver, so grain of salt and all. and, additionally, this is a compromise mentality. i ultimately think that the issue of abortion should 100% be between a person and their doctor with zero influence or regulation by government agencies.
For the record, she was, probably, past that. My wife was born at 20 weeks, over three decades ago.
at 28 weeks, that’s entirely possible. but i also know that every pregnancy is different and no one-size-fits all approach to this particular metric would work. which is why, at the end of the day, it should be between a patient and their doctor alone.
Sure, I respect that. If that’s where you want to draw the line for your own (theoretical) abortion, I’m fine with you being able to make that choice for yourself.
so 20 minutes before the birth, you think it should be fine if the mother terminated the pregnancy?
That is an…odd take
So in that case, if a baby is fully viable with confidence that it would live if born today, you still think they should be allowed to be aborted?
Yes, I thought i was clear about that.
You were, I was just verifying because I’ve never seen anyone with this extreme of a view. Christians like to say we want to murder babies, this is just the first time I’ve ever seen anyone who kind of fits the bill.
It’s not a baby until it’s born. It’s still a fetus even if it would have been viable if born. Any other deadline is going to be either arbitrary and not a good fit for some subset of cases. Also, wanting something to be legal is not equitable with wanting something to happen, and you should avoid falling prey to that false logic. I don’t think the person you are replying to is saying they would celebrate a last minute abortion, just that they think it shouldn’t be something that the blind hand of the legal system is applied to
Nothing extreme about it, people just don’t realize how early a fetus can be viable with today’s medical expertise, so using that as a standard makes no sense.
so it’s ok if someone chooses abortion a few weeks before they’re due?
I can’t think of a compelling reason to prohibit it.
Yeah I feel like a lot of people will make a reactionary comment without reading the whole article. Obviously if the mothers life is at risk or the baby just isn’t viable then a late-term abortion is the right move, but 24 weeks is 7 months. Easy for us to say with no baby inside us I guess, but that’s (imo) very late for an ‘I don’t want a baby’ abortion.
There’s definitely a conversation to be had around whether this girl had suitable access to healthcare, to secure termination earlier. I guess only she and her mother know the answer to that. Women should have a right to choose if they’re going to have a baby, afaik from the article the cutoff was 20 weeks at the time of the offence, any women reading this… is it likely to be 17 in today’s world and not realise you’re pregnant for 7 months?
What’s the problem with 28 weeks?
Yes, it’s clear that there must be a cutoff date. Personally, I like the biblical standard: baby’s first breath.
Nebraska shit hole state. Never will I go there.
Did you read the article?
I went there and it was actually dope. People so friendly, the food was delicious.
There was a tornado when I went there that ran right by us, it was oddly cool (mainly bc it was my first time experiencing one).
I’m also a POC, so I heard a lot of people like you that said I would just feel unwelcomed. Couldn’t have been further from the truth.
Seems News is just “US News”. I gave up all interest in US politics after the 2016 primaries. Good luck with fixing your shit. I’m out.
Of course it is. The US invented the internet. Everything defaults to the USA unless specified otherwise
maybe because the US is very controversial because bad decisions get made constantly? when other governments make horrible brainrot-level decisions, that gets international attention as well.
You know Republican hoarding guns to keep a tyrannical government at bay? Well, this seems that tyrannical government.
Wow this is so dehumanising that even though i live in India , which yall identify as a third world country feels like otherworldly shit !
“In May, Burgess pleaded guilty to a felony charge of removing or concealing human skeletal remains.”
They let you hide and steal bodies in India? Guess I learned something new today.
She probably did it coz of the stupid law !
I don’t know any reasonable person that would say the U.S. is a worse country than india. Between the caste system, gang rapes and extreme poverty experience by a huge portion of your population and arranged marriage culture, it’d be tough to convince most.
America isn’t perfect, we’re a new country with a lot of kinks to work out, but you couldn’t pay me enough to get me to move to india.
I don’t know any reasonable person that would say the U.S. is a worse country than india. >
Well at least we still have affordable healthcare to begin with. Every year americans fly to new delhi to get admitted to Indian hosptials 🥹 coz they cant afford healthcare in their own country!
Between the caste system, gang rapes and extreme poverty experience by a huge portion of your population and arranged marriage culture,>
While one can argue racism in the united states and we do punish rapists here ,for year 2021 , us reported around 200k rapes while india did 20k comparing the population and all , but lets not make a comparison there. The women in india can at least legally abort ( no matter what the reason for not wanting the child is) while arranged marriages are part of culture that some may follow ,you dont have to get into one.
America isn’t perfect, we’re a new country with a lot of kinks to work out, but you couldn’t pay me enough to get me to move to india. >
India is relatively new when compared to the US and despite of the abject proverty that you claim , people with minimum wage can still afford to eat and have a place to live ! We arent at mercy of few capitalists , at least not yet ! And please , no one asked u to move !
Considering no one would want to have an abortion in the third trimester if they couldn’t help it, this is either a situation of them being blocked from having an abortion at every turn earlier or a case where they wanted the baby, but found out that it was going to harm the mother and the state would do nothing about it because an unborn fetus trumps the life of the mother.
That’s a bold assumption given the lack of evidence we have supporting either of those situations.
What do you think the reason is for her keeping the baby remains?
It’s a much less bold assumption than to make the claim that she merely didn’t want the baby in her third trimester just because.
As for your question, that further implies it’s the second scenario that I listed.
It’s a much less bold assumption than to make the claim that she merely didn’t want the baby in her third trimester just because.
She took the abortion pill and held on to the babies remains. It’s not a bold assumption that she’s just a nut case, it’s a more bold assumption that she’s 100% innocent.
As for your question, that further implies it’s the second scenario that I listed.
So you would keep the babies remains instead of…disposing of it in some way?
If she wanted the baby in the first place, but was then in a situation where the baby was going to be stillborn and would be harmful for her to birth normally? Then yeah, she would be incredibly sad about having to have an abortion and would want to keep the remains of the baby she had wanted.
If
Once again, you have to make a series of bold assumptions to believe that she’s in the right here.
And you making the assumption that she’s a “nut case” is less bold than logical options such as wanting the baby, but there were complications?
And you making the assumption that she’s a “nut case”
My opinion, based on the facts of the story, is that she’s a nut case. I’m not assuming anything, the article plainly lays it out, she illegally obtained an abortion pill to kill her 28 Week baby, and held onto the remains.
If you don’t think that’s what a nutcase would do, that’s fine, but I’m not making any assumptions, I’m basing my opinion off the facts presented in the article.
A huge number of people did not read the article.
Just because people disagree with you doesn’t mean they didn’t read the article. You don’t need to keep fucking spamming this everywhere.
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“In May, Burgess pleaded guilty to a felony charge of removing or concealing human skeletal remains.”
If that is the case, people are a lot stranger then I thought. I thought not hiding and/or stealing human remains was something most people supported. Learned another new thing today
I wonder if the circumstances leading up to that have any bearing on what ultimately happened, and if the state’s draconian laws on women’s rights should be examined as a possible influence on these chain of events. No, you’re right, the entire thing happened entirely in a bubble, context be damned.
Sure is easy being a conservative, isn’t it?
My understanding is that the law for abortion was 20 weeks at the time. That was more inline with European standards.
Regardless, you cannot just hide the remains. If that were legal bad clinics would be in there right to dump remains.
Either way you seem to be making a lot of assumptions. If you have links about this case that have more context of the situation I would be happy to read them.
I am a -1.5 by - 4.21 on the political compass if that makes you feel superior.
If she wasn’t able to access abortion healthcare prior to 20 weeks and as a result had the abortion performed at 28 weeks, which I’m sure she was aware at the time was against Nebraska law, then it’s not really a surprise that she would try to conceal the remains to cover up her original crime, which I would argue shouldn’t be a crime to begin with. Think about it critically here. Do you think laws against hiding human remains exist because hiding human remains is in and of itself a bad thing, or do they exist because someone hiding human remains suggests that they likely committed another crime prior to it? In which case we should be examining the circumstances leading up to the remains being hidden to begin with and apply judgement based on the entire circumstances.
Either way you seem to be making a lot of assumptions
“Context matters” is an assumption? We don’t know the full context, but here you are assuming she’s a bad person.
I am a -1.5 by - 4.21 on the political compass
Who cares. The political compass is a fucking joke that nobody should be taking seriously.
You made the assumption that she could not receive abortion healthcare in the allowed 20 weeks at the time. I do not want to form my opinion on an assumption or feeling. I am going by what the article state since no one else has provided links to additional information on this case.
She was sentenced for the crime she admitted guilt to. Seems fair from the information I have.
You arguments may hold up better in the case of the mother when her sentencing come up.
“Who cares. The political compass is a fucking joke that nobody should be taking seriously.”
You appear to as you try to throw ideas that challenge you into buckets when you say “Sure is easy being a conservative, isn’t it?”
You made the assumption that she could not receive abortion healthcare in the allowed 20 weeks at the time.
I didn’t assume anything. I have made a theory based on the facts presented to me, but I have not asserted my theory as fact. Learn the difference between theories and assumptions, please.
Seems fair from the information I have.
That is an opinion formed from your feelings. It’s okay to form opinions, just don’t act like you’re better than everyone else because you’re pretending you aren’t doing so.
You appear to as you try to throw ideas that challenge you into buckets when you say “Sure is easy being a conservative, isn’t it?”
That had jack shit to do with the political compass and everything to do with you choosing to ignore everything that users in this thread were saying and assuming that the only moral judgement being made was on this woman hiding human remains, and ignoring all conversation to the contrary, when in reality the story is much more nuanced and complex than that. Boiling down a complex event to “person did a bad thing, therefore they are wrong in everything” and dismissing the rest of the story so you can make a moral judgement is something conservatives are fond of. Maybe don’t act like a conservative if you don’t want to be called one.
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Third trimester. No.
For those who did not read the article:
She was 28 weeks (6.5 months) pregnant. The survival rate for babies born at at 28 weeks is 80%. ( source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1117667/ ). This wasn’t a fetus, this was a fully formed baby.
I fully support right to choose, but this wasn’t abortion…it was murder followed by coverup. Everyone getting riled up over the social justice of this has plenty of things to be riled up over these days, but this isn’t one of those things.
“I fully support the right to choose” vomits forced-birther talking points
If you’re going to be against abortion can you just be honest about it and knock off this “I’m pro-aborition BUT” nonsense? You aren’t fooling anyone.
Go look up “28-week baby” on google images and get back to me about your bullshit.
Okay, I did. Still pro-choice. What next?
At what point do you think it’s unethical? Or do you have no line that can’t be crossed. At 28 weeks, it’s a fully formed baby that can survive outside the womb with an 80% survival rate…that’s way past any reasonable and ethical line.
Are you capable of reason? Let’s hear yours.
How exactly is a 28 week old baby “fully formed” when pregnancies are usually 40 weeks long? Do they just chill for 12 whole weeks doing nothing? Or are you ready to admit you’re just talking out of your ass? Try applying reason to your own arguments before wasting my time with whatever poorly thought out nonsense you’re coming in here to spout.
It’s unethical to tell woman what they can and cannot do with their own bodies. Trying to argue “well before x weeks it’s fine, after that it’s unethical” is misleading nonsense. If it’s not your body, it’s none of your fucking business. End of discussion.
I assume they will appeal as it is an unconstitutional crime they are being charged with.
“In May, Burgess pleaded guilty to a felony charge of removing or concealing human skeletal remains.”
I don’t see the case they could raise unless they want to try to codify whether or not the remains are human at 28 weeks.
Killing a baby at 28-weeks of pregnancy and hiding the body is illegal in the vast majority of the US, including in blue states.
What specifically would be unconstitutional about this conviction?
Whose body? That’s not yet a person.
bit too late for that, as she admitted to her guilt
