US President Donald Trump’s abduction of Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro on January 3 has emboldened him to proceed with the annexation of Greenland, a Danish-owned, self-governed territory, spelling the effective end of NATO and furthering Russia’s war aims in Ukraine, experts tell Al Jazeera.
“The move on Venezuela illustrates the Trump administration’s determination to dominate the Western Hemisphere – of which Greenland geographically is a part,” said Anna Wieslander, Northern Europe director for the Atlantic Council, a think tank.
“If the United States decides to attack another NATO country, then everything would stop – that includes NATO and therefore post-World War II security,” Frederiksen said.
“The pandering to Trump has been an element of our strategy over the last year, leaving observers hoping, but not entirely trusting, that another element of the strategy is preparing urgently for the final rupture with the United States,” Giles said.
Giles told Al Jazeera that Europe’s best option was to place a military deterrent on Greenland now, believing that putting allied troops in the Baltic States and Poland after 2017 deterred a Russian attack there.
What experrs? American experts?
They’re kind of forgetting the big elephant in the room that is the fact a lot of US foreign debt is owned by Japan and China, with the majority of the rest of it being held by countries that will be very very pissed off with this move.
If trump is stupid enough to pull the trigger, and those countries decide that a potential physical war is becoming inevitable, they’ll for sure dump all of that debt, all at once; killing the US economy and it’s ability to make war. War needs fuel. Despite Venzuela, Trump won’t have enough of it once his economy tanks.
Here’s a recent article on the chances the USD continues as the world’s reserve currency.
Ps it’s not looking great.
https://www.ftadviser.com/content/5cbf339b-7c4d-464b-8c2a-0c7409e515a0
Europe should prepare to tell Trump to go fuck himself.
Yeah I think the ordering on that is China, Japan, UK, Canada in terms of the countries that hold US bonds.
A diplomatic delegation came to Canada recently and then Mark Carney went to China. Maybe just coincidence, or maybe not.
Tanking the bonds is essentially the economic equivalent of a nuke. You don’t want to use it because there will be fallout which isn’t good for anyone. But the US actually using military force on Greenland would be a circumstance where you might push the button on that. China has some business interests in Greenland, and generally the US just invading places based solely on the whims of a deranged old man is worse for everyone than the economic fallout from tanking the bonds.
What if I told you that was literally part of the plan? The groundwork for looking the USD was already in project 2025 and the dark enlightenment bullshit the tech feudalists masturbate to requires the balkanization of the US, and pulling a smash and grab on the USD will get us there within ten years. And if Trump makes it to next January they can kill him and we get ten years of “legitimate” Vance and by then it’s well and truly over.
they’ll for sure dump all of that debt
That is a gain for the US, not a loss. No interest payments on the loans they’ve made, and no need to pay off the principal. Great!
The debt doesn’t “go away”, the countries sell it on the market, causing the price of us bonds to drop. That causes the yield (what it costs the us to service the debt) to go up. Borrowing becomes more expensive. Repaying debt or borrowing more to pay interest becomes even more expensive for the us.
Repaying debt or borrowing more to pay interest becomes even more expensive for the us.
Yes. This I agree. But the current administration has shown it is willing to ignore future consequences.
Higher yields are irrelevant if the project 2025 goal is to “Abolish the Federal Reserve” page 768
I don’t think you understand how inflation works…
Debt cancelling is a deflationary action. It reduces the money supply.
Dumping their bonds into the market isn’t cancelling their debt. Its making all that debt available for OTHERS to buy. Supply goes up, value goes down.
In other words, if all of the US debt was out up for sale at the same time, is value of the US dollar would crater.
Supply is the same unless debt is cancelled. A weaker dollar makes it easier to pay interest.
"If you owe foreign banks $100, that’s your problem. If you owe foreign banks $100 trillion that’s the foreign bank’s problem.”
That’s not how markets work.
But you’re clearly a troll just being intentionally obtuse for shits and giggles. It’s on me for not having realised it earlier.
Have a good day.
If you think correcting someone’s macro economic misunderstandings is trolling then you will be meeting many more trolls.
End of NATO means:
- Russia will go all in in Ukraine, Moldavia and baltic states
- Turkey and Greece will go to war.
- Israel will bomb everybody just in case
- China will get Taiwan
- USA will bomb Mexico
- Israel will nuke someone
- …
The fucking Muscovites will attack Poland to take the Sulwalki Gap and Finland to control their former vassal state.
\7. France nukes everyone. (That’s their policy, anyone uses nukes, they launch everything they have against all nuclear powers, which isn’t a lot, but that’s a lot of major cities gone.)
Isn’t that Israel’s nuclear doctrine?
Officially Israel “doesn’t have nukes,” unofficially they have very few that could be used in short order before they are nuked. They don’t have the capability to nuke more than a few countries in the Middle East
That’s not an answer to my question. What you described sounds most like Israel’s Samson Option and not anything like I’ve ever heard of France’s nuclear doctrine.
Israel doesn’t have the capability to deliver. That’s about as useful as saying North Korea will nuke everyone. They literally can’t.
France adopted the policies I listed, with some small nuance in the 1970s and haven’t changed their stance.
Source ?
I can’t find the articles that I read about this, but if you look up their nuclear policies, they won’t use in first strike scenarios, but the will use for defensive strikes, which amounts to exactly what I said. In defensive scenarios, someone else already used them, so may as well unload your entire stockpile. Everyone else is going to unload theirs.
Just for reference the US, Russia, and China have similar contingencies. Once Israel or anyone launches a nuke or uses a bomb in very short order all the stockpiles get emptied. France just was pretty blatant about it in the '70s.
Why can’t NATO still exist without the US? The alliance could still stick together even if the US shits the bed. God damn why am I typing this? WW3 is about to start and I have no idea what the fuck is going on in my country anymore.
Challenging, but not impossible. I think the military budget of all other NATO members combined would just be about the same as the US. However, it’s not like every country has its own independent “mix of everything”; they are supposed to work supplemental. What makes things worse is proprietary hardware and software in modern equipment such as planes. I’m not sure to which degree it would even be technically possible to use it to defend against the USA.
Then there is the nuclear weapon problem. France and UK would have to really stand their ground and follow through with nuclear retaliation. That means that even when the USA or Russia just use a small tactical nuke in Poland, Greenland or wherever, they’d have to use one of their few strategic nukes to destroy something big, possibly dooming Paris. The downside of the idea of mutually assured destruction always was that it only works with somewhat reasonable people who REALLY are not willing to take their entire civilisation with them. But since Stalin, there have never been nutjobs like Trump or Putin in charge, neither in the USSR, nor US, nor Russia.
A victorious Ukraine would certainly be an incredible asset to have in NATO, with all those battle-hardened, highly educated people.
But all things considered, might as well give it a try.
If it really happens, shut down all the US military installations in Europe and European territories. The Red Coats should tell the US to leave Diego Garcia too.
They can’t even shut down the base in Greenland. There’s a reason DeGaulle kicked the US out in 1966. And why Okinawa residents have been lobbying to shut down the local base for decades.
Europeans have been under military occupation since the end of WW2, telling themselves the gun pointed at the back of their heads was aimed at the USSR, even after it dissolved.
Now they’re going to have to deal with a foreign hostile occupation whose roots have grown deep
Germany needs to boot the US out of all the military installations there.
Some countries in Europe are starting to, and given what Europe is, that’s probably the best they can start doing.
At least because they made sure to show us their hand at their latest sonic weapons and information warfare used to shut down weapons that was used in the Venezuela attack. They would probably go the same route with Europe, trying to behead whatever strategic target is going to get them what they want, because they can’t go for a prolonged conflict either.
Gonna keep spamming this cuz I made it a year ago and it sat in a random folder on my PC for the perfect time lol
I knew this would happen eventually, I just thought it would happen after my lifetime
NATO won’t end, only the US being part of NATO will end.
In fact if NATO didn’t already exist, something just like it would be formed if the US starts invading countries just because a crazy old man thinks the world map is a colouring book.
The crazy old man is a reflection of all Americans. That’s how most Americans see the world. 1 American life is worth 10,000 third world country lives.
Please stop vilifying the entirety of America. There are millions of us that are doing everything we can to organize against this while also feeding our families.
Yeah well y’all need to understand there are people in Venezuela and Greenland that are just trying to feed their families.
If Trump attacks my country I’ll need to be capable of going to war against your country. And that demands considering you to be nothing more than collateral damage if you happen to be in the wrong place at that wrong time. Just like those 100 people he killed in Venezuela.
If Trump carries out some of the threats he’s making right now, you’ll need to get used to being vilified. The rest of the world may need to burn your country to the ground, and we can’t let feelings get in the way of what must be done to prevent him from destroying our countries.
You shouldn’t be surprised when people have the same consideration for your life as Americans generally have for the lives in countries you go to war with.
Don’t spend any more time telling people to not “vilify” Americans, spend more time trying to make it so America is not the villain. We aren’t making you the villains, the actions of your President is making you the villains of the world.
Wow alright, fuck you too then I guess?
Yeah, an innocent American “just tying to feed his family” LOL.
No one needs to “vilify” you. You’re always ready to be villains with very little prompting.
All I’m seeing is another “fuck you, my needs are the only thing that matter” MAGA-type in your responses. Way to be part of the problem. You’re no different than Trump’s supporters. You just have the benefit of not being born here.
You’re country is falling apart and instead of doing something about it, you’re looking for someone else to blame.
It isn’t people from other countries that fucked up your country. You’re fucked because Americans were willing to vote in a fascist because you believe the “I’m just trying to feed my family” line of bullshit justifies your raw greed.
You’re the wealthiest country in the world, and you voted for Trump (or didn’t vote at all) because you believed it would make you rich. And you sure as hell didn’t want to vote for the black lady. But sure blame the black lady, blame everyone in the world, do everything you have to do to avoid responsibility. American culture is rotten to the core, and you’re incapable of understanding that.
You got a pass on a lot of your bullshit when you were an ally to other countries. That’s over now.
That would be the ultimate win for Putin: Destruction of the NATO.
Prepare yourself. Go buy a good quality action camera.
with lots of film. get the high speed stuff, to shoot all the “action”.
Nobel price of …war
Nobel war prize
I don’t think NATO is going to end, I think what’s going to happen is NATO is going to turn on America if Greenland gets annexed. That is how I think World War III is going to start.
Agreed NATO will go on without the US.
Here is how the Greenland issue will likely play out. Trump doesn’t live in the real world and is too dumb to see the downside to what he is doing, so he will get Greenland one way or the other. The reasonable people on the other side see this, and have poor options. Either they sell Trump Greenland, notwithstanding all the reasons that this would be improper and unnecessary, or they stand firm and Trump moves in and takes it, which would effectively be an attack on a NATO country and trigger article 5. This would end NATO as we know it, as the U.S. would no longer be part of it (which Russia would love to see). If Denmark sells Greenland to the U.S. to appease Trump, they get some money and the fig leaf of NATO remains, as there is no attack on a NATO country. I believe that the latter course is more likely, as appeasement will disrupt the status quo much less, and history shows that appeasement of fascists is usually the first course of action (see, e.g., Chamberlain’s approach towards Nazi Germany in the 1930s.) Of course, this will only embolden Trump and his followers, as it will be seen as Trump’s great success.
Incidentally, if Trump were smart, what he would do is immediately start building up the base that the U.S. already has, and then get Denmark to agree to several additional bases, ideally in every town on the island, ostensibly to protect U.S. security interests. Then, use the bases to start pumping money into the local economy. Each base would have construction projects, personnel to feed and entertain, etc., etc. Suddenly, the locals would see dollars flowing into their pockets and their communities prosper. The U.S. could offer each citizen of Greenland $1 million tax free dollars if the country joins the U.S., and pressure Denmark to let Greenland put it to the vote. The population of Greenland is only 56,831, so the cost to purchase would be less than $57 billion. If Denmark balks, simply declare Greenland part of the U.S. and it’s citizens U.S. citizens, and make Denmark the bad guy for trying to strip Greenland of it’s right of self determination. If it goes to the vote, it seems highly probable that a majority the citizens would take the financial windfall and Greenland would become part of the U.S… On the outside chance that the citizens voted against their own financial interests, well, the U.S. would already have a ton of military already in place, and show its true colors and take it anyway. With this strategy, the U.S. could at least pretend to be the good guy.
Maybe America has to be understood as the logical conclusion of Western European geopolitical and moral ideology, and maybe it has to hurt Europeans (I’m French living in the UK, DW, it’ll hurt me too but such is life) for us to finally consider some sort of ideological revolution that produces something that’s diametrically opposed to what’s currently embraced. I mean, it’s not like we wouldn’t be doing whatever America has been doing for at least 70 years if we had their power level, lol, history shows that clearly, so for this all to end because it must (“THIS SICILIAN THING THAT’S BEEN GOING ON FOR 2000 YEARS!”) our minds have to undergo a drastic collective change.
It’s peak neolib capitalism.
“Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell”
