I have a couple friends like this. Live with their moms, over 25, never had a job or anything. Only plays games. I feel so bad for them because they don’t think they are smart but they definitely are, they just dont spend their time wisely.
Im not judging. That life sounds great when youre young. But I dont want them to wake up at 35 and be even more depressed because they’ve never done anything in life.
It would be well and good if they were happy like this but they definitely aren’t. Im just not sure how someone like that could even integrate into society. I give them advice here and there and sometimes talk about jobs with them, but they are also self proclaimed “lazy” and never really branch out to try new things. I try to send them links to code camps and stuff like that i think they’ll enjoy, but they dont do it. I’ve offered to hang out with them when im their town (we’ve been friends for years and know each other very well so this isnt weird) but they cant drive either which makes ir hard.
I already know most replies wil be “ITS FINE TO HAVE A BORING LIFE LEAVE THEM ALONE AND STOP TRYING TO “SAVE” THEM” but a boring life is different than a healthy life, imo.
Edit: i knew there’d be a lot of misinterpretation and people self reflecting on their own lives as a result of this post. Regardless, I am glad for the discussion. Thank you to those of you who had constructive comments instead of outright attacks.
If you didn’t want help, and someone showed up and started doing stuff, saying, “Hey I’m helping,” I doubt most people would want that help. Tl;dr you can only help those that want help or those that are open to it.
I think the best thing you can do is be supportive, invite them out, and showcase the positive aspects of your life & the life you’d want them to have. It’s not showboating / gloating, but it’s including them & offering them what a wider life might look like. When they want to change, you can be present for them in that moment.
Trying to change people can be such a fool’s errand. I’ve tried to do it with a bunch of friends over the last decade. You can’t move people who don’t want to be moved. You can maybe inspire them for more.
This is good. I do try to do this in a non bragging way and hopefully they don’t take it that way. But stuff like, I went out to a park near me and there was some cool rocks to climb on, you should try it at a park by you etc. Or small projects im working on.
Well just ask what their plans are over the next year, if there’s anything new they wanted to try, even just like a pet project not even a job.
Lazy is a label people paint others or themselves with. It’s not an innate character trait, it can be gained or lost.
Little nudges and brainstorming are fine but I don’t think anyone wants someone else’s vision of their life pushed on to them. What’s more valuable is if you could support them with things they’ve expressed they want to do.
I have asked. They always say nothing.
Agree, theyre not really lazy. They just say they are a lot.
Agree. The problem is they dont want to do anything. Idk, I guess some people want nothing more than to game and that is fine, I just dont see it lasting late into life.
Yeah. It’s tough, probably the only other thing you could do is lead by example.
The road to hell is paved with good intention.
/thread
I dont know the whole situation and it sounds like your trying. My closest parallel is, my friends that are kinda introverted.
I have one in my friend group, that thinks the perfect Friday night is air frying chicken and playing Command and Conquer.
Not that i hate that, but just like any good thing it gets tiresome.
So i sometimes spend time asking around for fun stuff to do on the cheap.
A week ago we drove roughly and hour to a OLD, OLD AS SHIT Drive in movie theater. It was $20 for 2 movies and for as many people as you could cram in a car.
It was honestly really fun, watching horror movies with my friends and just dicking around.
I was really introverted when i was younger and my friend is pretty introverted.
My best tip, is to invite somebody they enjoy hanging with something. Then offer them to join, and make it low stress and no schedule.
Thats how the best times with friends happen.
My friend really wasn’t thrilled about going to the movies, but because another friend was going. They wanted to go
We dont go out a whole lot because well shits expensive. But every time they get less introverted, because its not “oh im going somewhere with people i dont like talking to people” its more of “i may not like other people that are gonna be there but my friends are gonna be there”
Heard mentality helps introverts
That sounds great!
We are both introverts really, I just learned how to get out of my comfort zone more often. I dont think they’ve ever done that
I can see that you care a lot for your friends’ well-being and happiness, and are concerned their lifestyle might be harmful for them long term. Instead of going straight into talking with them, you’re getting more information so you can do it right. That’s very considerate of you and I’m really happy they have such a good friend. Seriously, your friends are lucky to have you.
Bringing up concerns with anyone, especially those close to you, can easily lead to hurt or conflict if the other person misunderstands your motivations and feels misunderstood, criticized, or judged. I want you to succeed if you decide to talk with them because I can see you only want to ensure they can have healthy, fulfilling lives and I’m sure you want them to see the same.
Have you considered looking into any literature on brushing up on communication skills for difficult conversations? If you’re open to it, I highly recommend Nonviolent Communication by Marshall Rosenberg. It teaches how to identify and express core motivations and the feelings behind them, learn the same when others speak (even if they aren’t initially aware themselves), and work together to address everyone’s needs.
Disclaimer: I just used the bog standard Nonviolent Communication method in this comment. Old me would have said something like “you’re judging your friends and are gonna piss them off” while having the same core feelings and motivations I felt when I wrote the main comment. NVC helps me figure out my needs and feelings as well as yours, then talk about them without sounding like a judgmental, overly critical douchebag.
“Im not judging”, proceeds to judge.
These days 25 isn’t that old to be living at home given extortionate rent and lack of decent job prospects. So if they had a soul-crushing job they would be “healthy” in your eyes?
Why are you so optimistic/pushy about them becoming wage slaves?
Why are you so optimistic/pushy about them becoming wage slaves?
Because that’s one way to move towards independence. Independence not just from the parents, but from having a soul-crushing job.
It’d be hard for a 30-year old with no education or job experience to get a job or start a business. Or save up money for anything.
Thats also why its worrying. They dont have a cent.
Now I dont doubt they could really get a job pretty easily if they wanted. They just have no reason to
If they find a way to make money without needing to build up the discipline through a job etc., then that’s great. People can do that over the internet on low-cost areas or with some familial support.
Not everyone can.
Yes, there’s enough resources in the world to go around where people shouldn’t have to work, let alone 40h a week.
But currently, that’s impossible in every country that I’m familiar with.
Ok but if they are smart like OP claims they will surely already know they’re unlikely to have money if they don’t get a job at some point. If OP keeps bringing that up it’s pretty condescending.
I never bring this up to them, that would be assholish in my opinion.
Hate to break it to you but sending them job openings and code camps counts as bringing this up.
I just sent them as something to look at. I’ve never said “you need to look at this, you jobless loser!!” Its always been oh ya here’s openings at my company (because they asked what people there do) and they expressed some interest in coding but like me have never been able to stick with it so ive sent code camps I was trying out to see if they wanted to do it together. Etc.
Or they’re counting on mom and dad’s money until the parents pass away. Could be in denial about how much time they have and how easy it would be to get a job when that time comes.
I never said they had to get any sort of job. But they dont do anything (bike, running, volunteer, board game groups. Literally anything)
I just brought up the job thing because its easy.
Also. No being can live without doing some work, and i dont believe its healthy to do so. Even creating art can be “work” (at least for me it is).
They play games and socialise online. Why would a board game group be any better than that? In terms of exercise, that’s their prerogative, I’m sure they will at some point when health issues start arising but why are you so bothered if they don’t?
I could personally live quite happily without doing work. When animals are fed and watered do the get back to grafting? No, they socialise, lounge about or play. Stop trying to push your definitions of “living” on others.
They play games and socialise online. Why would a board game group be any better than that?
In-person interactions are quantifiably different than online interactions, and it’s helpful to have those skills in one’s repertoire.
In terms of exercise, that’s their prerogative, I’m sure they will at some point when health issues start arising but why are you so bothered if they don’t?
Because OP cares about their friends and wants them to get ahead of things rather than waiting until it’s too late to start paying attention to their health.
The best way to treat an unhealthy heart is to not let it get unhealthy in the first place, for instance.
Ok fair enough, for social interactions, board games would probably be better than video games but perhaps they are more introverted than OP.
I’m sure OP has good intentions but as others have said you can’t push your vision of healthy living on others, they have to come to that conclusion themselves. Apparantly these friends are smart so likely know the health effects of a sedentry lifestyle and that’s their choice.
The tone of writing is quite condescending pretending those of us that have jobs or other hobbies live in some kind of work-happy socially integrated utopia.
Being smart doesn’t mean they know everything. They would probably get it if they read up on it, but not every gamer reads up on the health effects of a sedentary lifestyle, etc.
I get that people have different hobbies. My primary hobby is gaming. I’m introverted. I enjoy working remotely. I like my job, but I’d still quit if a passion project could support my life.
If I were stagnating by spending all of my time with hobbies and not improving myself or my future, I’d hope that someone would help snap me out of it.
You dont think much about who provides you the food, clothing, electricity, housing to live comfortably. People seem to forget about those who are working in the sewers and keeping your plumbing running, and that the world would be totally fine if no-one did any work at all.
Now, do we need to sit in cubicles 45 hours a week, likely not. But there is still work that has to be done to survive and thrive.
I think about that all the time personally and think those sort of jobs should be the highest paying.
But getting an average 40 hour per week office job is not helping those sorts of things whatsoever, it will just be increasing profit for shareholders.
The majority of people live with their parents until around 30 years old these days.
I think it’s going to be hard for you to get your friends to care about these kind of things.
A bit of a tangent but I wonder if this is becoming more common these days. The “shut-in” phenomena, japanese call them hikikomori. News headlines say it is but i wonder how well they represent reality.
I get it. Life can already be inherently difficult, but the capitalist meat grinder present in most countries just serves to make people even unhappier so others can profit from an interminable struggle to reclaim the happiness that is their birthright.
Some folks have cut out the work portion of the “work makes me sad, consumption makes me happy” cycle and just consume for fleeting happiness. Others might struggle with mental and/or physical illness. Regardless, society is more often than not failing them.
You can lead the horses to water but you can’t make them drink. Keep offering to hang out, maybe if you’re having a deep conversation ask if this is how they want the rest of their lives to go and if they have ever looked into mental health help (this absolutely may be them struggling to do things and not letting themselves think about that fact). But at the end of the day you can’t improve things for them, you can only offer whatever help you can offer, help if they ask for it, and provide a good alternative.
Also, encourage them to take regular walks. It’s a really good first step to stopping being a shut in. It involves changing scenery, exercise, and places you around other people. Biking or running would be a next step if they’re interested, they can serve as a hobby and cardio and biking can also be a form of transportation around town as well as providing an opportunity to get involved in social rides. Things like that drastically impact mental health
I think a lot of people felt personally triggered by this.
I’m in this picture and I don’t like it
Lol
Hey man there really is nothing wrong with doing this if youre happy and it fits your life. But it probably isn’t a long term living situation
This is a pretty nuanced problem, in my opinion. Here are my thoughts:
- You’re definitely judging them
- I don’t necessarily think it’s wrong to judge them, but it would have to be for different reasons than you state. I would judge them for being personally incompatible with the fundamental tenets of society (ie that you contribute to it and act as a good citizen)
- You can’t change the mind of someone who isn’t open to change. One of the things you’ll need to accept is that most people are only willing to learn from their own mistakes, and a good portion of those aren’t even willing to learn from their own mistakes consistently. You will need to wait until they regret their decisions before change can even be possible. And even then be aware that there’s a solid chance that they’ll still keep doing whatever they’ve been doing
- It’s good that you’re thinking about this, but on the other hand, it’s not your responsibility to ensure that your friends have good lives. Your responsibility is to yourself, and if you act as though you have responsibility over other people, you come off as nosy, pushy, bossy. Be careful that you don’t confuse advising someone with assuming responsibility over that person.
hire them.
you have a job you can offer right?
Guessing this is sarcasm, but I have in fact sent them open listings from the company I’m with and encouraged them. So, yeah.
Have you considered these people don’t consider you to be that important in their own lives? It’s not the job of friends to fix the perceived foibles of their friends, unless a friend actually asks for help.
Friends are just people who enjoy each others company and offer as much or as little emotional support when able/willing. When that stops being the case it’s fine to drift apart.
Also, really take a step back, ‘cause you literally wrote this:
Never said I was going to actually try to help. Just for ideas. Also I stand by that they dont spend their time wisely, thats an actual fact, sorry if you dont like it.
Not judging. That’s an actual fact.
To me, in this context, these two statements aren’t opposing each other as I think the word judge can have some nuance to it. For example I could say I found your original comment overly aggressive, but I don’t judge you for it. By which I would mean that I have an opinion about your actions, but I’m not assigning you a moral value on that basis.
Well you can choose to ignore the definitions of words. I am not judging.
And yet, you also judge my understanding of word definitions to be insufficient. See the difference? It’s like there’s two axes in play, good or bad, and correct and incorrect.
I tried everything for a couple of friends. similar stories. all I did was damage the friendship irrecoverably.
cut ties with them. dead weight drags you down.
besides, pretty presumptuous of you to think of them as being less than you and in need of you help.
Im fine with them just being a friend thats around. Is not like we are inseparable or anything.
Unless I can read them like a book or they personally ask me for help, I won’t do anything. Some people just let the world around them think whatever it wants to think and they just keep their life, their goals and their progress to themselves. Now I’m not saying that this must be the case for your friends or that they definitely on’t need your help. But they definitely don’t need advice from online strangers like us as the only image of them we know is the one you painted.
