O’Kelley’s [sic] says billionaires represent “such an incredibly ludicrous waste of money in a world where there’s so many people who don’t have that,” but he says actually being one is also “othering”—separating you from the limits and consequences that define normal life. “There’s something about keeping connected to normalcy that is really, really important,” the entrepreneur explains. “I don’t want a yacht and I don’t ever want to be able to be without consequences. I think that’s the biggest risk, is, how can we be accountable when we have so much money we can buy anything?”
He gets it. Past a certain point, wealth erodes your humanity. I think I’d have picked $100M too - at a safe 4% return that’s $4M per year, plenty for anybody to live on but not megayacht money.
Motherfucking $4MM total is enough to live on with a return like that.
Sure, but choosing to live on $160k/yr would be a bit much when you’re starting with $1.6B. I can’t fault him for still wanting to enjoy being wealthy instead of upper-middle-class and definitely don’t think it’s reasonable to complain that giving away 95% of his wealth is somehow not enough.
Even if it still feels a bit wrong, I can somehow reason with there being wealthy people and the motivation of potential lavish life, since some seem to really need it to make any effort in society. It’s somewhat understandable at least. Talking about tens of millions, with a bit of stretch hundreds - okay, I can stomach it even if it still seems extremely excess.
But billions… that’s already ten times more than that. How anyone can stomach that, I don’t get.
While my heart disagrees, my brain can get, with some effort, behind what this guy says. It kind of makes sense at least. Retaining your humanity and giving up such an inconceivable amount of money for that, really sounds pretty good in this world we’ve been living in lately. Sounds fucking weird to feel good about someone still having such excess in comparison to all the people struggling with next to nothing, but at least there’s some amount of backbone and clear thought involved.
Not sure what to think still. Like someone else commented, better reserve outright okaying this until we know how the money was given away.
But if it turns out to be sensible and humane, I can honestly say I’m fine with the kind of millionaire this one is. It’s not ideal, but it’s tolerable and in some niche sense, justifiable. If it’s all good, I even wish all the millionaires were like this… if we have to have them, as a compromise with the part of people who need all that, the “dream” to strive for, for whatever reason, at least let them be sensible and moral in some way, such as this…
My point is that $160k is enough for anybody. That much per person would give any household a very comfortable lifestyle even in a HCOL area.
You’d think that, but hcol is hcol. Then add kids. Now those kids can drive, go to college and need a lot of shoes (seriously, I feel like I should get a part time job at a shoe store). Gotta put some up for retirement too.
It goes faster than you’d think, and that’s with buying used cars, no luxury vacations, little travel, bargain shopping and doing a lot of my own home/car repairs.
This is why I live in my medium size city in a “fly over” state.
I’ve found that where cost of living is lower, wages are also lower, and I’m still broke.
I’m living very comfortably with my partner in a desirable part of Seattle with a mortgage and high medical bills for just over $120k annually.
You’re doing great! But I’m guessing that’s double income no kids, or at least no kids. I think we can allow this anti-billionaire ex-billionaire to reproduce and give his kids the luxury of graduating without debt.
Single income, kids grown up.
EDIT: corrected post with biweekly to monthly pay
My point is that $160k is enough for anybody. That much per person would give any household a very comfortable lifestyle even in a HCOL area.
$160k/year is way low to live a “very comfortable lifestyle”, even more so especially in a HCOL area.
Lets use NYC as an example of a HCOL area. Here’s what that looks like for take-home pay:
Lets call it $8,800/month to make it easy.
So a person needs to house themselves. Lets look at NYC rents. Here’s median prices:
And here’s some specifics from a few places in the city:
So looking at the cheapest of the 3 listed here, the small 1 br 1 bath place in the East Village will set you back about $3200/month. Of our $8,800, we now have just $5,600/month for every other living necessities including food, transportation, clothing, and the big budget killer we haven’t talked about yet…health insurance/healthcare.
All of this also assumes a person would be single. If they have children a 1br apartment isn’t going to cut it, and the costs for raising children are also a large increase in monthly money burn. People still have to save for retirement too.
$160k/year is way low for: “That much per person would give any household a very comfortable lifestyle even in a HCOL area.”
$160k / 12mo. ≈ $13k / mo.
You threw away $100k annually, chum.
First, thank you for pointing out I made a mistake. I didn’t see the calculator broke it into twice a month paychecks.
Take home for one month for $160k/year would be: $8,784
I’ll correct my post, but $160k/year is still way too low to meet your “That much per person would give any household a very comfortable lifestyle even in a HCOL area.”
You’re taking out too much tax. Closer to $9,300.
A household of two adults would have $320k gross annually, so twice that.
Also, I’m comfortably supporting two adults in a HCOL area, with a mortgage and high medical bills, for under $125k annually.
I have to disagree with this unfortunately. Myself and many of my friends all make $160k or more each, but when it comes to life’s debts and surprises, family, medical bills, etc. - $160k is not enough. And that’s with me renting a room from family and not even really saving for retirement yet.
Yup, we make in that neighborhood. We live comfortably and frugally, and we still can’t just do what we want. We don’t sweat small purchases as much, and are upgrading things quicker than when we made less than half of that. But we still need to be smart about what we spend, especially with inflation the last few years.
The fuck are doing with your money? Ive never made more than £35k a year. And debt free at 47 with a fully paid off 3 bedroom detached house and fancy as fuck german car.
See that euro symbol in front of your currency those of us with dollars do not have good public transportation, we have to pay extreme amounts for health care and health insurance, we dont have public college for free or low cost, our housing is predatory, car centric infrastructure design necessitates car ownership with another high cost insurance, the car market has become predatory and ridiculously priced to the point its even inflated the used car market to match the prices of what new cars should be. There are numerous reasons the US salaries look better on paper than they do in reality. Should $160k a year be a great salary that leaves you with surplus, it really should and i wish that were the case. Even if you were to be able to secure a salary like that in a low cost of living area in the US it would go a decent distance but the problem being the places where that is the case usually have bad health care, shitty public schooling, lack of access to quality food, etc. which means most of those areas arent ideal for those with families unless they want to pay exorbitant amounts for private school, transportation costs to get to a location with quality health care access in the event they need it etc. Its not as straightforward as you think. We need major help across the pond here, and most people have become so brainwashed and dumbed down from our shitty education systems that they are willingly voting against their own interests because they believe the propaganda that one day they might be a billionaire.
Thats a pound sign, not a euro sign.
We have healthcare, but we pay for it in taxes. Our housing costs are just as fucked as yours.
Stop making excuses for being shit with money.
I tried to start / invest in 4 businesses prior to COVID and lost everything and then some.
That’s part of it. I’ll be paying for that the rest of my life probably.
But even ignoring most things related to that, $160k wouldn’t be enough and my wife and I don’t even have kids.
Doesn’t the UK also have expensive housing? I’m guessing you bought 27 years ago? Wise move.
I bought it three years ago.
What’s the net income? $160k after paltry long-term capital gains tax is going to go a lot further than a single person being taxed fully.
What’s the net income? $160k after paltry long-term capital gains tax is going to go a lot further than a single person being taxed fully.
- Federal Income tax of $160,000/year from long term capital gains: $24,000
- Federal Income tax of $160,000/year from ordinary income (without FICA and Medicare): $ 27,938.50
So in this case its only a $3938.50 cent difference between federal taxation on ordinary income vs capital gains income.
State and local taxes are all over the place for capital gains. My State, as an example, treats any capital gains income as ordinary income at the full tax rate.
FICA and Medicare count. But then so does health insurance premiums.
I don’t think there’s anywhere in the world where you can’t get by on $160k. There are plenty of places where it can be tight, especially if the comparison is just a number of your choice.
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Ha ha ha ha no. Lemmykins hate people with money almost as much as they hate cops.
He could have given it all away and they would bitch about who he gave it to.
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Actually it’s not. I used to live in a moderately HCOL area (Denver metro, Colorado). Not even the highest. On a low six figure salary I was worried about rising rents and couldn’t afford to buy a home anywhere around there, they were all like $400-$650k.
Mind you, this is just me and my wife, no kids, and few debts, the costs were just extreme. Looking at the costs I was looking at a mortgage of $2500 to $3200, and that was when the interest rates were only a bit over 3%, they’re much higher now.
I’ve moved to the boonies and had a cheap home built for around $200k, and I’m on track to pay it off while also saving for retirement since I’m in my 40s and can’t do this shit forever. Thankfully, my job is fully remote and I’ve built my skills to be able to be fully remote, but not everyone can do that.
I’ve been extremely fortunate to land in an industry I enjoy where I make a bout this much, and can confirm, single income in a relatively LCOL area, things are tight.
It doesn’t make any sense to keep just enough, because then you may have to worry about weathering any economic storms in the future.
I think the amount he kept is reasonable, especially when they are pretty much one of a kind for doing this.
Yeah, I was thinking about fluctuating interest rates alone. If we are assuming 4% return on 4M and that’s where 160K/year comes from…that’s essentially a fixed income, risking all kinds of problems in the future, including very low interest rates and doesn’t even begin to get into problems like inflation spiking again or unexpected healthcare bills…
Plenty for a normal yacht, the kind you can sail by yourself or with a partner. Megayachts are basically private cruise ships that need a full staff to sail. Even if I had the money I wouldn’t want that!
The only people that should want one are cruise ship operators and you can rent one for a lot less.
I’ve always said If I could have enough where I could purchase in cash a cottage in a small cottage town here in Canada with a top of the line internet connection and I’d never have to work or worry about money for the rest of my life I’d be happy. what would I do? nothing. I’d pursue my hobby projects, more FOSS development, gaming, painting, build model kits, drink beer, eat whatever I wanted, and socialize with as few people as possible.
That’s all i want. I just want enough money right now to achieve that.
And you would only pick 100mil because of how fucked up the world is. You can east burn half a million in US if you have a serious health condition.
$4 million a year is absolutely mega yacht territory.
Not even close - megayachts are 9 figures and that doesn’t include the absurd crewing and other operational costs. There’s no way he could own let alone operate one on a $4M income.
I definitely underestimated the cost of mega yachts. But $4mil/yr is still and insane amount of money.
I mean, I could probably retire right now with 4 million and live comfortably. But hey, I’m not gonna fault this dude for doing the right thing here and still being wealthy. Dude put over 90% of the funds back into causes and recirculating instead of hoarding it like some sociopathic dragon.
Oh I don’t want anything I’ve said to come off as a criticism of what he’s done. I think it’s amazing.
Nah, just regular yacht
Yeah, and uncrewed, one where you can operate everything solo or as a couple. Big crewed ones can easily be 20k per day to run.
Uncrewed regular yachts small enough to singlehand are cheaper than a normal middle-class house. Hell, you can get an old one for $1 and some sweat equity.
(That’s a slight exaggeration – fiberglass and resin costs money – but there are definitely people who sail around on boats worth 5 figures and work occasional odd jobs when they need money.)
Wait is this really a good rich person? I have to think something’s up
Good for him.
Raise the taxes, remove the cap on FICA contributions, implement universal healthcare.
Should have shared the money with the workers who built the company into a $1.6B valuation and worth acquisition.
Jesus Christ, it’s never good enough for you, why even bother trying.
If anything he should have invested it into effecting political change. But that other person is right; it’s never good enough for you.
In Russia that’s an oligarchy. Yet here you are advocating it?
Oh, for fuck’s sake.
I’m not advocating for the system. I’m just suggesting a way the money could do the greatest good.
Money can buy political change. That shouldn’t be true, but it is.
If you’re so hungry for a target to be mad at that you imagine them like this, maybe it’s time to take a little break.
If only he believed in himself, he could have been a billionaire…
I saw a meme or something a while back that said to eliminate billionaires, every cent over 999 million should be taxed at 100%, we could give them a little plaque that says you won capitalism and they’d still have more money than anyone could spend in a single lifetime.
I’ve said stuff like that before, but I bet we can do even better. You don’t just tax the extra money they make and be done. You publicize the great things the money does, and you give the people awards, titles, and attention in whatever way seems effective.
So maybe next year AWS keeps growing like crazy and Jeff Bezos’s yearly “donation” is like 30 Billion dollars. He never sees that money, yet he still lives a billionaire lifestyle. The government uses that money to have schools offer every child in the country three hot nutritious meals per day, and some hallway in DC gets a plaque that says Jeff Bezos: Savior of the Children and the Future of American Brainpower. We all win in the ways we care about.
If it’s ok for companies to psychologically manipulate and/or physically harm people in pursuit of profit, then it’s ok for we the people to use the bottomless narcissism and ambition of the CEO class as an energy source.
I’d take just one single measly Canadian million dollars, buy a ~300-400K small house far from the city with enough land to have peace and quiet, and maybe try a greenhouse for vegetables.
That leaves enough money with what I already have to cover never working again, various moving expenses, some repairs and renos, and maybe the occasional weekend transexual escort in my whirlpool.
600K definitely can’t cover your incidentals over 20+ years.
First I said "That leaves enough money with what I already have " and second CPP and QPP will kick in before that. I can live easily on that. I need little.
Cpp and qpp is not a lot. You’ll want to reinvest to subsidize Luckily with the house market when you have to go into a home you can sell the house for a decent retirement home. Just make sure you book into a good one early enough. They have 2 yr waiting lists in some places.
I’d rather blow my brains out than end up in a home. They’re organized fleecing and meat warehouses.
How many more people/companies do we need to see doing this before we see change?
I am praising the action not the individual :)
Oh. I thought this was The Onion for a second when I saw the title.
He’s not wrong. Being circled by scavengars like some kind of dying leviathan is not a sane way to live.
Just a general reminder to anyone to use a site like Charity Navigator to find good causes to donate to.
There’s also his age as a factor, he’s probably more aware of his limited remaining lifespan than he would have been if he cashed out at 25, let’s say.
Cashing out 1.6billion at any age is generational wealth.
He sold the company for $1.6bn, but he had a 10% stake. So his stake was worth $160m. He kept $100m. So he gave away $60m.
He did not give away a billion dollars. The article headline and the article itself is written in such a way that it arguably obscures the facts and confuses.
It’s great he gave away $60m but it’s got little to nothing to do with his opinion that he doesn’t believe in billionaires; including that in the headline makes it seem like he gave away a billion dollars.
When a billionaire gives money away, it’s usually to their own charity, and it’s to avoid paying taxes. Of course it sounds good to say they gave it away but it reality, they give it to a charity they fully control.
yea well trying to increase your wealth to billions is pretty much an addiction much akin to gambling addiction.
