Mexico is poised to amend its constitution this weekend to require all judges to be elected as part of a judicial overhaul championed by the outgoing president but slammed by critics as a blow to the country’s rule of law.
The amendment passed Mexico’s Congress on Wednesday, and by Thursday it already had been ratified by the required majority of the country’s 32 state legislatures. President Andrés Manuel López Obrador said he would sign and publish the constitutional change on Sunday.
Legal experts and international observers have said the move could endanger Mexico’s democracy by stacking courts with judges loyal to the ruling Morena party, which has a strong grip on both Congress and the presidency after big electoral wins in June.
Speedrunning populism, let’s see how that goes. Cartels electing judges is my bet.
If that’s the case then the Cartels already elect/make most of the politicians — whom select the judges — so there’s not really much of a difference, is there?
Is it worse than having judges appointed for life?
Probably. You’re now going to have judges raising money to campaign. And the average on-the-street voter knows fuck-all about what qualifies somebody to be a judge, so they’re unlikely to pick better candidates.
What qualifies someone to be a judge is simply redefined to be what is popular. A judge should therefore no longer follow the law, but make the ruling most in line with what is popular. Under a voting system that is the sole qualifier.
Which is what the legislature is for.
Yikes. That’s an insanely misguided worldview.
Do you know what was real popular for centuries? Fucking slavery.
Popularity, like legality, is independent of morality. We should be striving to better understand how to improve the well-being of everyone, and use that information to legislate what is moral based on that ultimate goal. Popularity should not figure into this at all.
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I’m not sure what you could mean here. What qualifies someone to hold any political office is their conduct and their rulings and how those are interpreted is by what the people believe is fair.
A judgeship is not a “political office.” Yes yes yes, I know - I hear you clicking the “reply” button, but it’s not supposed to be. And by making them directly voted on they they definitely will be.
I’m going to preface this with “none of these problems are solved by either options but some things are better in some situations than in others.” There is no silver bullet.
But - I want you to imagine a scenario: A judge wants to be on the supreme court.
Scenario 1: Big Evil Co. starts up a PAC that spends billions on getting that judge elected and they win. Big Evil Co. has business before the court and threatens to dissolve the PAC when the judge comes up for election again. Maybe PACs are illegal in Mexico - I don’t know, but they can find some way to fund campaigns since they’re often expensive ordeals.
Scenario 2: An elected official who was chosen by the people (sometimes the good people, sometimes “those other guys”) nominates somebody for office. They are chosen by other elected officials. Now when Big Evil Co. comes before the court they don’t have many options. They can bribe or give gifts. But they can’t really effect whether that judge remains on the bench. And such actions are often deeply looked down upon or outright illegal.
I deleted my comment, not really in the mood to argue the many flaws of the judicial system today.
But it’s noteworthy that I don’t believe such a thing as “rule of law” is ever achievable without corruption and that there exist only varying degrees of corruption but more or less every judicial system on earth is corrupt to some extent. I made a much longer writeup responding to you, but again, I felt that I’d rather not spend my day arguing this.
Long and short, the only way the current system works is if you assume that all politicians are acting in good faith and that all voters have equal political power. Neither of these is true on a foundational level, and that is reflected in widespread corruption and manipulation of appointed judges.
I didn’t think we were “arguing” - just a discussion. You’re right that there is no such thing as “rule of law” without corruption. Or government without corruption. Or a fantasy soccer league without corruption. etc. All human things are corrupted by bad people.
The point is not to remove corruption completely, which isn’t possible, but to minimize it and make it less effective.
In Australia the legal establishment selects a shortlist of suitability qualified candidates to the government for our version of the Supreme Court (our High Court). The government makes a choice. In all cases both political parties generally are fine with the choice. Both sides occasionally gets the rough end of the pineapple in court decisions, but that’s the law, not political bias.
Watching what goes on the in US is a horror show. Heart goes out to you guys.
We have a strong “anti-expertise” streak going on at the moment, and it’s painful to watch. “Trust experts to select judges? What do they know?”
It’s a problem, and I have no idea what has led to it.
I hear you, but that system has worked well for us since federation in 1901. It’s not perfect, but what system is? At least we have never witnessed the absolute crazy judicial stuff that is an ongoing mess in the US.
Believe me, I’m not attacking the US in any way. The world needs America to succeed. America needs America to succeed, but every SCOTUS decision is crazy. Even political gerrymandering is permitted in the land of the free, according to your Supreme Court.
No system is 100% resistant to shitters.
Life appointment was supposed to get judges to focus on issues and not make decisions with re-election in mind. Supreme court in the U.S. has shown us how that is going.
Thats a problem with political appointments by the president not life terms.
Federal appointments still have to be approved, and even with SCOTUS they can still get rejected, e.g. Bork
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Bork_Supreme_Court_nomination
Thomas was close to rejection too owing to Anita Hill’s testimony
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarence_Thomas_Supreme_Court_nomination
Hehehe, Bork
But the vast majority of the time they are approved, and the nomination begins with politicians. Contrast this to the way the UK does it where the appointments come from the senior judges with politicians then approving or rejecting the proposed new member.
Bork was nothing compared to Harriet Miers. Probably the least qualified person ever nominated to SCOUTS.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harriet_Miers_Supreme_Court_nomination
And yet very possibly not the worst person nominated for that specific vacancy.
Samuel Alito, a federal judge on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit, was nominated four days after her withdrawal and subsequently confirmed.
Oh nowhere near the worst. Just the least qualified.
You can have judges appointed and term limit them. It’s not an either/or.
IIRC before these changes take affect, Mexico’s President appoints (at least supreme) court judges who have tenure for 15 years. The ruling party is arguing for these changes to combat corruption. Rumor is that the Mexican legal system is corrupt af, and I haven’t seen any alternatives proposed by the opposition in (English) coverage of the protests, but we’ll see how electing judges goes I guess.
I would prefer appointments approved by Congress with both term limits and a maximum age. Judges should have minimal political incentive.
Wouldn’t that just make it partisan? The only way any system of appointing judges can work is if its all done in good faith. Considering the corruption in Mexico you seem fucked either way. Not that America is any better.
I think it’s going to be partisan regardless. Unfortunately, from this article, it’s not clear to me the length of their term. If they constantly have to seek reelection then I believe it would be even more partisan than being appointed for a set term.
Having elected officials makes sense for politicians since their job is to represent the interests of the people but it’s terrible for other types of public office.
What do you want from a judge or a sheriff? Someone who’s experienced and competent. Who can best judge that? Would it be the hierarchy of their peers who they work with every day or would it be random members of the public who’ve barely even heard of them?
Edit: and no, I’m not suggesting political appointments. That’s also a recipe for disaster. Do it like Commonwealth countries: make the civil service independent of the political process and make appointments be part of the usual process of promotion.
Having them be appointed by politicians isn’t making much sense either. It’s not a secret that many judges have their own political affiliations since they often get appointed with support from different political factions (see the supreme court in the US). In theory, you’re right. In practice, it doesn’t always work that way.
What do you want from a judge or a sheriff?
You want someone who aligns with the legislature and President. If your courts are stacked with the opposition party and there’s no legal way to replace them, they become a judicial firewall against any legislative reform.
It is interesting how easily the article passes off ‘stacking courts’ as more of a danger with elections than appointments.
Yeah, there’s no way you can stack an elected court!
Nearly all media is owned by conservative white men that willingly court fascism if it means lower taxes.
It would be hilarious if America became the corpo plague lands and Mexico became the land of the living and Americans tried to cross into Mexico but the border wall Biden built was too impenetrable.
I feel like there should be a first line of defense, so you don’t get charismatic idiots. Like some hard test and only the top 20 % scorers can campaign.
Like how many of your rulings in the past 10 years have been overturned
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they don’t even need to have passed the state bar in some counties
WTF
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So… The American system (mostly)?
Hey it’s like me and my older brother. I avoided all sorts of trouble by watching him make dumb mistakes and learning from them.
Associated Press - News Source Context (Click to view Full Report)
Information for Associated Press:
MBFC: Left-Center - Credibility: High - Factual Reporting: High - United States of America
Wikipedia about this sourceSearch topics on Ground.News
https://apnews.com/article/mexico-economy-remittances-lopez-obrador-sheinbaum-12b6b34283c65248313275e6496f1fd7
https://apnews.com/article/president-andres-manuel-lopez-obrador-judicial-overhaul-democracy-protests-7c13b20ef398264378dcdf1971a9a5d2
https://apnews.com/article/mexico-judicial-overhaul-senate-vote-9f2eb58bf52e13759d8d28d52c24d2de
