Leaked messages show Amazon will force a ‘voluntary resignation’ on employees failing to relocate near their team ‘hubs’::undefined
Sounds like the solution is to say, “Yes,” then never show up onsite. Make them fire you, so you’re entitled to unemployment benefits and any severance.
You don’t even have to say yes. Just refuse to relocate it, and when they say you have to resign, just don’t.
But if 50% resign because they think they have to, that’s 50% less unemployment Amazon has to pay
No. The solution is to call their bullshitnout.
A company can’t hire you to work from one location (regardless if it’s WFH or not,) and then unilaterally decide to have you relocate.
“You can apply internally” or anything else that is a new contract doesn’t matter. They’re changing the terms of employment, and they can’t do that unilaterally.
The choices are to agree with their new terms, accept the “out” of taking another position in your area, or reject them. They can use what ever semantics they want, but it’s still a layoff.
You know how a lot of job applications say something like “Have you ever been fired?”. That is a pretty strong filter. When you are expecting hundreds, if not thousands, of applications from everyone who knows how to look at linkedin, you need to set those filters up. And it becomes a roll of the dice as to whether “worked at a FAANG” gets you auto interviewed or “been fired” gets you auto rejected. And, if you are not currently working for them, employment verification is not too uncommon. Everyone saw the blog posts about how to lie on your CV. So if there is no risk of “Fred will get fired if we ask Amazon if he works there” then HR will ask… and get an earful.
So it stands to reason that most staff are more likely to just resign and lose their severance rather than take the termination.
You know how a lot of job applications say something like “Have you ever been fired?”. That is a pretty strong filter.
Constructive dismissal isn’t the same thing as being fired for cause, regardless of whether Amazon tries to lie about it.
And I am sure Amazon will make that distinction when they get called about the person who actively spited them and forced a firing/termination when they were otherwise going to get to skip out on unemployment and severance.
But hey, you can sue. That worked out real well for the ex-twitter employees… and even people amazon dicked over in the past.
Like a lot of things in life: it doesn’t actually matter who is morally or legally in the right. What matters is what the bad actors can get away with.
If you get to the interview stage and say “look, you should know that I was part of the team that were fired as part of this news article” then you are basically set. Any company worth working for will say “Jesus christ, that is fucked”. But if HR calls amazon to make sure you aren’t some kid who was lying on linkedin? You are now not just a bad potential employee, you are a liar. And that is the kind of thing that can potentially even come up in conversations with colleagues.
Have you ever been fired?
Lie. They lie to you, you lie to them. They’re not the government. The worst they can do is fire you if they ever found out, which they won’t.
That’s job abandonment and would disqualify from unemployment benefits.
Voluntary resignation = termination. You should still qualify for unemployment.
Forced voluntary resignation no less. Definitely sounds like termination to me.
I understand the value of working in an office, but I wish our society would choose to pursue improving the quality of our lives instead of increasing productive capacity. It’s never enough. These companies always want more.
We can do our jobs just fine, even great, at home. But they want to squeeze everything out of their workers.
It’s not about the benefits of going to an office. It’s all about corporate realestate. Companies and rich people have a lot of money invested in office buildings and they are all losing value.
There are also huge swathes of middle managers who cannot justify the existence of their job if all the peasants are free to work from wherever. Who’s gonna judge you for being 3 minutes late and not in dress code as you sit and type?
Middle managers have absolutely zero say in such kind of decisions. They often find out a day before everyone else to prepare to share the news to their reports.
I think for a lot of engineers, their productivity would be much higher at home. In the office you have way more distractions and time wasters, like coworkers, physical meetings, etc. Even if employees at home are scrolling social media, they’re going to procrastinate in office too, just in a different way, whether that’s just sitting and doing nothing or going out for lunch on a really long break.
Yeah this is the part I don’t get. We are always arguing about whether productivity is highest with wfh or wfo. But we never discuss what maximizes people’s happiness. Which seems more important to me, why are we doing any of this anyway? Capitalism I guess.
I work at an NGO and you could argue that they are ‘one of the good ones’. They work us into the ground from the goodness in their hearts. The motivation at C-suite is that they want to get as much work done as possible because it seems important. If your job helps to save lives then you want to be really efficient. Profit companies have different goals but the motivation to improve efficiency remains.
Technology enables it. As productive as my company is today I know that we are well behind where we could be. Recent developments in AI have set a brand new horizon to reach towards. These forces aren’t going away anytime soon. It makes you want to move faster.
We need to incentivize companies to put more money into people. I think this is something that government has the power to do. There is definitely a way to make sure a company hires two people, pays them salary of two people, and they do the job of one person by working 25 hours a week.
I understand the value of working in an office
I don’t, but I’m also a sysadmin. Offices are my hell.
What I learned from some of my colleagues when we moved to WFH, is that some people want to get away from their kids and working from an office is a blessing for them.
I had this exact thing happen to me, they wanted me to move from a tax free state to LA. I said no and they came back we promised your position to another employee. I said ok I need at least a 50% raise to counter the cost of living and taxes. They balked and thought they could push me into it. I stood my ground to stay in my current position and they had to fire me, which looks bad on them as I had no infractions.
I collected, didn’t have to pay back my relocation (over 20k) and had a job that I pushed off until near end of unemployment. Thanks for the free long vacation! I went to China and HK (this is before the chaos) for a few months
“Forced voluntary resignation”… What a fucking gross euphemism for being fired. It’s disgusting but I guess at this point I really shouldn’t be surprised by how Amazon treats their employees.
It’s not a euphemism though, if you voluntarily resign, you’re probably not eligible for unemployment.
They can’t FORCE it… but they CAN make you THINK they’re forcing you to resign.
My girlfriend got laid off a while back, and they asked for her to submit a resignation letter instead of them firing her. She said no. Guess who got unemployment while she was looking for work?
Oh it gets worse, my old company used the term “involuntary separation”.
How about “un-hired”?
They just want to downsize without looking bad to investors, lmao.
Downsizing is good for investors since it reduces costs making your quarterly results look sexier.
Yes and no. They have to cut expenditures but make it look like it’s not because they’re not making enough profit.
A company with high profits good, but a company laying off employees to get high profits must be in trouble.
It’s a stupid dance between VC and CEOs.
Call me crazy, but Voluntary Resignation doesn’t sound very “voluntary” if it’s forced.
It sounds a lot like Mandatory Fun, actually.
they all employ the same consultants, shouldn’t be long until we see a version of this from the others
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My work place is doing something similar. RTO (return to office) by some date near the end of the year. Failure to comply will result in some penalty or termination.
I don’t understand it. WFH has proved to be the same if not more productive than working in some stupid office. Company revenues and profits at highest point ever.
What’s even more fucking stupid is that the company is retiring some of their real estate in an attempt to save on costs yet they push this forced RTO.
The email they sent out was also a fucking joke — citing “tO pReSeRvE oUr UnIqUe CuLtUrE” bullshit that I have seen at other companies. It’s like they all hire the same PR firm to do their copywriting.
Makes you wonder if these executives are also well invested in corporate real estate. Thus the push towards RTO across the board.
