I definitely see this as “we can’t get away with the boys club anymore” rather than a problem with Gen Z. Gen Z won’t hide their unhappiness with any of the -isms and will call it out instead of just keeping their head down.
Right, it’s not the lack of skills to disagree. What it is, is the bravery to not tolerate intolerance, and they stand for what they believe the world should be. Making mr grouper proud out here.
“YoU CaNT sAy AnYtHiNg AnYMoRe”
“How am I supposed to compliment a woman these days?”
It’s the same boomers that make those complaints whining about Gen Z
This is exactly it. I’ve seen this exact thing play out a bunch of times. It’s a real threat to them, because so many of these people got to where they are because they know how to work that frat boy culture to their advantage, and now they suddenly have to deal with people who don’t find their shit funny. The reality is that they don’t actually have any real skills besides the politics of being loud and borish.
The thing is, if you say “black lives matter” they’ll quietly run to HR and claim they don’t feel comfortable and they don’t want politics in the workplace. Then they’ll turn right around and go back to talking fondly about their date rape days at Cornell
Fair enough. But if you don’t tell someone why you are unhappy with them or the situation they control, then nothing improves for anyone.
I believe the impetus is on the bigot to figure their shit out. It is exhausting arguing with bigots, and it is not people’s job to teach them how not to be a bigot. There is enough information out there now that you should know not to be an intolerant asshole, and if someone chooses instead to be a piece of shit, I’m comfortable with them being ostracized while they sort themselves out. And if they can’t, I’m comfortable with them dying old, alone and confused wondering why nobody visits them.
Not true: boomers will eventually die
I read this as Gen Z doesn’t tolerate the boomer/older Gen X intolerant/racist/sexist/homophobic/transphobic bullshit that younger Gen X/Older Millennials had to, and a lot of folks receiving this deserved pushback don’t like it.
¯\(ツ)/¯
Nailed it, except that older Gen X and boomers who weren’t part of the intolerant majority ALSO had to put up with all that bullshit.
Very good point that I should have included. Thanks!
If you remove the gen z distinction: yeah. People have lost the ability to acknowledge there are other world views than their own.
Sometimes it is a good thing. “Agree to disagree” on a person’s fundamental right to existence is one of the may things that has made the world so fucked up.
But also? People in general spend so much time surrounded by The Algorithm and having every aspect of their media and news consumption catered to them that it makes a massive disconnect. When youtube or even lemmy/reddit always shows you what you want to hear, someone doing the opposite is not only a personal insult: it is an attack on your very reality.
And while it likely impacts gen z and younger millenials more: one of my co-workers is a boomer ass boomer who was mostly hired as a favor to an influential person at one of the companies we are trying to get as a client. And it feels like every other sentence out of his mouth is “you are being intentionally obtuse” because he cannot fathom a world where he is not right and an expert in everything he thinks about.
And you can see it in most threads where people have an actual discussion. People LOVE to say “I think you are being disingenuous” or “you are being argumentative” because it is easier to call someone else a liar than it is to realize they came to a different conclusion.
Very well put
No, it’s more that the boomers/older Gen X treats any sign of even polite disagreement as attacks on their very character. Many of them simply cannot accept that their views are outdated, and any challenges to their view is a disrespectful slight.
It’s very telling that many of them still complain about millennials as children ruining everything to this day, when the oldest millennials are in their early 40s, and they are somehow shocked that Gen Z is even more progressive and vocal about their views than us millennials.
Not to mention some views of older folks are absolutely bigoted. But it’s the kids who are wrong, apparently.
It’s impressive, you’re absolutely everywhere :o
It’s rare for me to have this much free time, you’ll probably see a lot less of me here once work starts again.
You will be sorely missed then.
But not in my bedroom 🥲
Look, I don’t care at all what views my coworkers might possess. And that’s the problem. Because when one of these fuckwits starts going on a bigoted rant at work, I do NOT want to hear it, and I surely don’t give a damn about it. So yeah, no, we can’t work alongside fuckwits. If they knew how to shut up, we could.
Welp, Gen Z, it’s your time in the furnace I guess.
I remember when “Millennials are ruining everything” articles were the fodder for lazy writers, now it’s crap like this.
I remember when we killed Applebee’s? That was a fun weekend.
To be fair, Applebee’s needed to be ruined.
We just figured out we can microwave our own food
Honestly this isn’t a gen z thing, it’s just a shit article thing. 70% of this piece is just this one fucking guy bitching about the “kids these days”
I read that as “they voice their opinions too much”.
Yeah, this sounds like, “Gen Z won’t put up with the same levels of bullshit as their predecessors “
The problem is that the things they “disagree” about are sometimes basic scientific facts, like climate change, or beliefs which strongly affect people’s lives negatively, such as racism, anti-lgbt bigotry, or economic views like “it’s just fine to pay people such low wages they can barely afford to live and will never be able to buy a house”.
And why are these politics an issue in the workplace?
I’m 52 and have worked a wide variety of jobs. Nowhere I have been employed was it acceptable to talk politics, except on the down-low with people you knew well. If there was a political discussion where two people disagreed, they either agreed to disagree, or it was quickly dropped.
I’m the same age as you, so I’ve seen the same social and political changes as you have over the last 20 years or so. Some “politics” are just negative moral stances about other people. If your political/moral views make people feel excluded and you make sure we all know your views, whether through explicit political conversation or implicit comments, we are not going to “agree to disagree.” We will be telling the shithead to STFU, and if they don’t, we will be getting HR involved. We can’t and won’t tolerate intolerance in the workplace.
In my experience, in the 80s and 90s, intolerance was pretty commonplace, and racial and moral minorities mostly just had to suck it up. What’s changed is that liberals have “woken up” to that long-standing intolerance, while conservatives want things to stay the same. Up until about 2016, the majority of these conservatives hid their intolerance. Little did we know that they were just seething inside. Then Trump made it okay to be vocally hateful again, and that seething mass of conservatives exploded into public discourse again.
I don’t think Gen Z is incapable of disagreeing with their co-workers in a respectful way. I think they are seeing angry, usually older, conservatives raging about moral issues that they thought were already resolved. Or, they see boomers still denying climate change, which is a real slap in the face for the younger generation who will face the consequences long after those boomers are dead. It is very disconcerting and depressing for Gen Z, and as the father of a couple of Gen Z kids, I’m proud of them for taking a stand.
Agreed with almost all that! Except the last bit…
they are seeing angry, usually older, conservatives raging about moral issues
Where, outside social media, is this happening? Worked all sorts of positions over 30+ years and the times I’ve heard politics in the workplace are memorable because they’re so rare.
Maybe I’m out of touch, but I rarely saw it in the past, and even less so now that we’ve been so politically polarized. And I notice none of the younger folks are chiming in with their own anecdotes, just the assumption that Boomers are the badies, spouting bullshit in the workplace.
Millennial here. I hear a lot more anti woke, PC, LGBT, etc talk than I would like. Both the Bud Light and Target “controversies” I heard about at work because people were apparently enraged by it.
“Cancel culture” forgot that in my comment above but it gets thrown around like the candy at Halloween
I’m an older millennial, mid 80s birthday, and I hear at least one GenX or Boomer make jokes about how they ‘can’t make jokes anymore’ or ‘uh oh the woke police we’ll get me if I say that’ or ‘everyone’s so sensitive these days’ or ‘that’s probably not politically correct’ a week. I’ve had more than one boss in my life talk about ‘welfare queens’ and ‘ObamaPhones’ and another that outright denied climate change. One of my co-workers was recently talking about how ‘slavery has been everywhere throughout human history, so why are the US so evil for it still?’. Had another one ask me if the neighborhood of the city I live in is safe now that we’ve ‘defunded the police’ which no we haven’t.
I’ve encountered people talking politics everywhere I’ve ever worked in my 15-year career in tech over 4 different companies, 3 in the Fortune 500. It’s not always from boomers, but it is always something along those same beats of either complaining about how things have changed, and they can’t say whatever they want to whoever they want, some bullshit right wing talking point, or concern over non-existent crime.
I envy you. I work for a university. I started in 2017 and it took about 30 minutes for my conservative lab mate to start talking to my Mexican ass about how “we need to build the wall.” That’s just one of the many times this person went on racist rants, unprompted. Though to be fair they were not a boomer, so it’s a problem that spans generations.
In my case, we had a very religious guy in the office. Elder Gen X, not quite a boomer. He was very open about being evangelical and morally conservative, which was perhaps irritating to some, but tolerable. But then Trump and COVID happened and he went off the deep end, spouting COVID conspiracy theories and talking about supporting Trump and the Bible and the end-times. We eventually had to fire him.
The problem since 2016 is that people don’t have to be explicitly “talking politics” for their intolerant views to be known. Trump isn’t really a “conservative” in any traditional sense. He is a crass hate machine, and that is his overwhelming brand. So, if you support him, you are pretty much advertising that you are intolerant. It isn’t hard to see how that would be hostile to young people who have been raised to be tolerant above all else.
I’m not really sure what the person in the article means. It says something about “lockdown-era students can’t hold down a heated discussion”… but why would they be having heated discussions? It also says
Miami University even organized a dinner with senior leaders in order to teach proper mealtime etiquette, such as how to engage in conversation on neutral topics.
which makes it sound like it’s older people who bring up inappropriate political topics in an inflammatory way.
That may be! But again, I have never seen anyone, of any age, bringing up politics. (EDIT: Didn’t mean to say “never”. Very rarely is more true.
In any case, if a coworker is being an argumentative ass, it’s on the listener if they choose to fight back, be the bigger person. A workplace political disagreement doesn’t rise to the level of being punched in the nose, you don’t have to fight back. :)
Because those aren’t politics. These are peoples lives. There’s no such thing as agreeing to disagree about if people get to have basic rights. What’s been labeled as political now is denying people the ability to live as they want, ironically taking away the freedom one side claims to love.
issue in the workplace
Think you’re going to win hearts and minds by arguing at work? No, you won’t, you’ll only hurt yourself and cause the opposition to double down, lose more than you gain.
Worse if you’re young and confronting an older coworker! “See, I knew these kids were full of shit. There goes another one.” Counterproductive, ain’t it?
And no, just because one side holds heinous beliefs does not make those beliefs apolitical. Fair definition I found:
the activities associated with the governance of a country or other area, especially the debate or conflict among individuals or parties having or hoping to achieve power
May I invoke Godwin’s Law? :)
Hitler believed Jews were pests that should be exterminated. Many people agreed then and now. Of course that’s a vile position. But it’s still a political position because it guided governance.
Saying, “My opinion is morally correct and that absolves it from the politics descriptor.”, is unhelpful at best. At worst makes the speaker harder to engage.
Why would I have a conversation with someone like that? Sounds like a conservative talking to me. Comes off like, “I’m morally superior and if you disagree, it’s not ‘mere politics’, you are scum unworthy of engaging.”
One more thought for y’all: You can, and should, push back on regressive opinions. But there are plenty of ways to say, “I’m not interested in hearing that bullshit.”, without literally saying that. It’s a social skill, and isn’t the lack thereof among Gen Z the topic at hand?
(Here’s something plain crazy; I’m upvoting your comment for adding to the conversation, even though I disagree.)
Like you, I’ve moved around the US quite a bit have have worked at a variety of companies. But I noticed that the article mentions Miami University, which is in southwestern Ohio. People around here have an odd idea of what constitutes rudeness or what should not be discussed at work.
They are ALL IN on politics.
Visitors to our work’s Ohio location (from out of country or out of state) are completely freaked out by it. Locals have no idea that their behavior might be considered rude or inappropriate.
Long story short, I’m not even remotely surprised that a local school is trying to teach people manners.
Or maybe it’s because they have zero patience for people who can’t understand the idea of basic human rights?
Oddly enough, the Gen Zers that have decided not to talk to me or my wife, because they can’t stand disagreement, are our nieces and are both rabid Trump supporters (well, unfortunately I currently live in Florida) and couldn’t stand the fact my wife made a joke at Twitler’s expense.
Not that I’m complaining, I don’t want anything to do with Trump supporters (SEE! It’s US TOO!) so that made it easier for me. My wife is more family oriented than I am and is pissed about it.
All of which is kind of meaningless given the article conveniently forgets that under 25 year olds of all generations (as in I saw it with mine) traditionally (1) tend to be more politicized, (2) tend not to have the practical social skills to understand the need for tolerance and (3) quite honestly, the country has swung to the right recently and being intolerant of fascism is no vice and a mark of being a human being, so anything they’re seeing with Gen Z is simply an amplification, thanks to (1) and (2), of what’s actually happening among all generations.
If people want me to hang out with them, they can stop wanting LGBT people killed, can stop supporting politicians who are passing laws denying life saving healthcare to women, can stop calling everyone who disagrees with them pedophiles (and can stop supporting groups that actually support pedophiles like the big three churches), can stop supporting the murders of black people by law enforcement and “white people who think they’re law enforcement”, and so on. 'cos all of those positions are extreme. And horrible. And you don’t get a pass in my home for having them.
Have your nieces heard of internalized misogyny?
I ain’t gonna give any weight to a freaking anecdote from any one, let alone a manager. Show me the proof or sit down.
Personally I’m just not fond of working with geriatric, lead-poisoned nazis but that’s just me.
When the “disagreement” is that your nosy Boomer Karen coworkers mis-gender you or disapprove of the way you live your life or think it’s NBD that by the time you’re their age we’re going to be in the “find out” phase of the biggest disaster to hit Earth’s biosphere in 65 million years, the problem isn’t really with Gen Z.
Considering everyone who saw the headline and didn’t read the article jumped into the comments talking about Boomers being transphobic, racist, or science deniers, I actually am not surprised at all by the article (which is, of course, generalizing an entire generation and therefore erroneous, but not entirely without merit).
It’s not about the topics they’re disagreeing on, it’s about the ability to disagree congenially and effectively, which is an extremely important skill in any workplace.
You aren’t going to change any minds by saying, “You’re wrong. I’m right. I’m done talking to you about this.” You also aren’t going to have your mind changed if you’re wrong, as is very common in a workplace. My solution to a problem isn’t always the right one. Other times it is. I need to know how to disagree and have constructive discussions about topics I disagree with others on to reach the best solutions.
This is one of the reasons diversity is important to businesses. Diversity of thought and constructive disagreement leads to improvement. But if we outright reject those who do not think like we do we all stagnate in our respective bubbles.
Sure this can be applied to good faith dialogue on larger, more important topics as many here seem to be assuming, but it is essential on day-to-day smaller issues that people face in the workplace.
If the social contact was the same as it was when today’s old people were young, then today’s young people would be much more willing to put up with shit.
Everyone in this thread is jumping to the conclusion that it’s about politics, race, etc.
Meanwhile here’s me wishing the office Zoomer would shut up about the way I drink my coffee.
According to the OP, zoomer will never talk to you again if you disagree “hard enough.”
Just say “Has it ever occurred to you that everyone else drinks coffee wrong? I am the world’s best coffee drinker. Donald Trump and Elon Musk have both told me so on Twitter. In fact, Vogue magazine has been trying to schedule me doing a drink out for the last three years. I have denied going on the Joe Rogan Experience twice already out of principles. As you may have surmised, the topic would have been about the proper way to drink coffee. In fact, I know I was drinking coffee, correctly may I add, the exact moment of your conception. I know because that’s how great at drinking coffee I am. But thank you for your concern.”
Yeah but then you’re first on the list when the office needs a scapegoat.
Steve: someone shit in the pinball machine!
Gen Z: I bet that fucking Millenial Nazi did it
Kim, the actual pinball shitter: yep, definitely someone older than us Zoomers
Maybe there’s a degree of truth to this, but the issue doesn’t only apply to Gen Z… I’ve had plenty of overgrown children in their 40s and 50s lose their shit in the workplace when the slightest bit of pushback comes up about anything. I’d say this is more of a general communication skills problem these days
