I would love to have a PhD or even a masters degree but I cannot afford it.
One thing that I feel like needs to be pointed out when it’s mentioned is it’s not just 10,000 PhD’s. It’s 10,000 people who could afford a PhD. 10,000 families that could afford for one of their kids or spouses to spend that much time in college with that much expense or to take on that much in student loans. It’s not just PhD’s it’s wiping out what’s left in the upper middle class.
Most PHDs of the type referenced, and most STEM PhDs in general, are fully funded. In other words, tuition and generally some degree of living expenses are covered in exchange for work performed for teaching and research assistantships, fellowships, and grants. This is also true for many STEM masters degrees, though with fewer funding opportunities.
If you’re going post-graduate in a STEM field with a thesis requirement AND are paying tuition, you’re getting fucked.
I don’t know where you live, but that’s not the norm in the United States. Everybody I know with a PhD has six figures in student loans or is rich enough to have their parents pay for it.
Edit: It’s also occurring to me that what you’re talking about is somebody who either does not already have a full-time job or is going directly from their masters to their PhD in order to have work at the college. Nobody who’s keeping their full-time job is also being a graduate assistant.
I only know one person who even was a graduate assistant while getting a PhD so this is just uninformed at best.
Edit: This person did their post-doc at Stanford in neuroscience. I specifically asked them about this some time ago and they told me that their tuition was indeed covered by them being a GA. However, due to changes in the tax code that’s considered income. So they owe taxes like they were making six figures a year. The only reason this person has been able to afford this is because their parents are rich. This was the main part of my point, you have to be rich or lucky to get a graduate degree in the United States regardless of how your tuition is paid for.
The reason I said this was uninformed is because I know far more people who have gotten PhD‘s who are simply up to their eyeballs in student debt. I realize that this is anecdotal but none of the research that I’ve been presented or seen myself indicates to me that this or having rich parents is not the norm.
How many thousands of PhD candidates do you personally know where you can actually type “well, I only know one person like that so you’re uninformed”?
Mate, you’re on the Internet. Go to your search engine of choice, search for “are most US stem phds fully funded” and behold! Page after page confirming your apparently vast anecdotal knowledge is completely wrong.
I did search this for the largest institution in my state before I made the comment. PhD’s are more expensive there per credit hour than masters degrees. The only thing I have found searching what you’ve indicated is scholarships or GAs. Not how much tuition actually costs.
Yes, you found the cost per credit hour that is paid to the university by the supporting financial source. The university makes money from tuition while making additional money from the work completed by students and faculty for the research funding. They double dip.
Teaching and research assistantships will also “waive” tuition fees and provide a poverty level stipend, allowing the university to brag about its charity while utilizing low wage grad students to replace positions formerly held by tenure track professors, who are already increasingly displaced by adjunct professors.
In the US and that’s absolutely the norm here. I’d know - I went through it.
Your edit expands the context outside of what we’re discussing - losing 10,000 STEM PhD candidates. People don’t often do part-time PhDs in STEM as they’re not frequently offered. People aren’t keeping their full-time jobs when getting a STEM PhD because that becomes their full-time job.
Looking at it from a super high level, universities apply for funding to complete research, which is completed b graduate students with assistance from faculty. Their tuition is covered to give the graduate student the necessary skills to complete the research while also furthering their other educational goals as time and funds allow.There are often constraints on how and when this research is performed which can make it incompatible with a part-time schedule. The time requirements can also be massive - between classes, teaching, lab research, field research, and being the de-facto lab manager, I easily put in 70-80 hours a week. I even had to sign an agreement that I wouldn’t seek outside work or I’d lose my funding, which ultimately was comical given I wouldn’t have the time
My edit didn’t expand anything. I was already talking about how this affected people’s families and going far beyond simple tuition affording. Even if your tuition is covered you still have to be able to afford to not have a full-time job that pays anything for that amount of time. I feel like you’re being intentionally obtuse.
I don’t know how to put this more gently. You’re speaking about a subject that, for anyone familiar with it, it’s pretty clear you don’t know much about, and are getting defensive and doubling down when anyone contradicts you.
It seems like you’re more interested in feeling right than actually being right, and I’m just not interested in wasting my time with someone who would rather write paragraph after paragraph about how other people are wrong than spend 60 seconds first looking online to check if they’re actually right themselves.
My original comment was about what was being lost in addition to those who have a PhD. About their families and what it took from them for that person to get a PhD.
At this point I don’t even think you read my comment. You are being an ass about having tuition covered like that’s all that it takes to get a PhD. You didn’t contradict me you moved the goalpost and won’t accept it when I try to move them back. I literally have family with a PhD in higher education administration who I find far more trustworthy on this subject than a random internet asshole who has offered nothing but “trust me bro”.
The bottom line is that graduate degrees are expensive and tuition is only part of what it takes. If you personally are too blind to see what was sacrificed by others for you to go through this then I feel sorry for those people.
At least I actually read your comments. Even though they didn’t have anything to do with the class war I was talking about and you come off like an uppity douche.
I’ve spent more than 15 years trying to get out of the US. It’s pretty much only possible if you can trace your lineage back to Europe which as a Native American who has maybe a tiny bit of Scottish I can’t. Or if you get a job in Europe. I can’t even afford a European vacation.
It’s absolutely possible but it’s not easy if you don’t have a in demand profession.
One of my closest friends left the US for Germany with about $5000, a suitcase of clothes, and absolutely no specialized work skills. He worked in hostels for room and board, and did part time work for spending money. He had to skirt immigration laws while working to get permanent residency, but got his education in IT for only minor fees each semester and became a citizen after ten years.
It can be done, but it’s much more difficult without lots of money, family, or similar advantages.
But if it’s something you’re seriously considering, I recommend settling on your research topic, and looking into the specific universities you’re considering. Each school tends to report really good data regarding their graduate schools. Start reaching out to the professors you’d consider studying under, they generally are very responsive if you come with directed questions relevant to their area of study. From there you can work with the university admin to understand what funding options may be available to you.
I appreciate your response. Also, that you seem to be being more cordial than other people in this thread. However, I’m unable to find anything in the report that you linked that Indicates that PhD students aren’t taking out loans. The report seems to lump masters and PhD students together and indicates that they’re taking out many times higher loans than undergraduate students. Perhaps I just missed the part that shows that.
More to my original point though, even what you are describing would be incredibly expensive. And require that my wife find a job there too. Which is why I mentioned families in my original comment. In order for anybody to get a PhD their parents or spouse has to be able to support that person including moving and having a job themselves or whatever that entails.
You’re absolutely right, it’s not easy to do. But it’s also one reason it’s good to check with specific universities. What you’ll find is that many try very hard to provide stipends, and if you help lead lectures you can even get an income. It’s not unusual to net ~20k a year. That won’t cover rent and food, but it’s not bad!
This of course is only for research degrees. Law and medical degrees will be incredibly expensive.
I would love to have a PhD or even a masters degree but I cannot afford it.
One thing that I feel like needs to be pointed out when it’s mentioned is it’s not just 10,000 PhD’s. It’s 10,000 people who could afford a PhD. 10,000 families that could afford for one of their kids or spouses to spend that much time in college with that much expense or to take on that much in student loans. It’s not just PhD’s it’s wiping out what’s left in the upper middle class.
Most PHDs of the type referenced, and most STEM PhDs in general, are fully funded. In other words, tuition and generally some degree of living expenses are covered in exchange for work performed for teaching and research assistantships, fellowships, and grants. This is also true for many STEM masters degrees, though with fewer funding opportunities.
If you’re going post-graduate in a STEM field with a thesis requirement AND are paying tuition, you’re getting fucked.
I don’t know where you live, but that’s not the norm in the United States. Everybody I know with a PhD has six figures in student loans or is rich enough to have their parents pay for it.
Edit: It’s also occurring to me that what you’re talking about is somebody who either does not already have a full-time job or is going directly from their masters to their PhD in order to have work at the college. Nobody who’s keeping their full-time job is also being a graduate assistant.
This is not true. In STEM in the US nearly all PhD candidates are paid a stipend and tuition.
I only know one person who even was a graduate assistant while getting a PhD so this is just uninformed at best.
Edit: This person did their post-doc at Stanford in neuroscience. I specifically asked them about this some time ago and they told me that their tuition was indeed covered by them being a GA. However, due to changes in the tax code that’s considered income. So they owe taxes like they were making six figures a year. The only reason this person has been able to afford this is because their parents are rich. This was the main part of my point, you have to be rich or lucky to get a graduate degree in the United States regardless of how your tuition is paid for.
The reason I said this was uninformed is because I know far more people who have gotten PhD‘s who are simply up to their eyeballs in student debt. I realize that this is anecdotal but none of the research that I’ve been presented or seen myself indicates to me that this or having rich parents is not the norm.
How many thousands of PhD candidates do you personally know where you can actually type “well, I only know one person like that so you’re uninformed”?
Mate, you’re on the Internet. Go to your search engine of choice, search for “are most US stem phds fully funded” and behold! Page after page confirming your apparently vast anecdotal knowledge is completely wrong.
lol. I got a chuckle out of this. Ty.
My pleasure. They seem well intentioned but haven’t the slightest idea what they’re talking about.
I did search this for the largest institution in my state before I made the comment. PhD’s are more expensive there per credit hour than masters degrees. The only thing I have found searching what you’ve indicated is scholarships or GAs. Not how much tuition actually costs.
Yes, you found the cost per credit hour that is paid to the university by the supporting financial source. The university makes money from tuition while making additional money from the work completed by students and faculty for the research funding. They double dip.
Teaching and research assistantships will also “waive” tuition fees and provide a poverty level stipend, allowing the university to brag about its charity while utilizing low wage grad students to replace positions formerly held by tenure track professors, who are already increasingly displaced by adjunct professors.
In the US and that’s absolutely the norm here. I’d know - I went through it.
Your edit expands the context outside of what we’re discussing - losing 10,000 STEM PhD candidates. People don’t often do part-time PhDs in STEM as they’re not frequently offered. People aren’t keeping their full-time jobs when getting a STEM PhD because that becomes their full-time job.
Looking at it from a super high level, universities apply for funding to complete research, which is completed b graduate students with assistance from faculty. Their tuition is covered to give the graduate student the necessary skills to complete the research while also furthering their other educational goals as time and funds allow.There are often constraints on how and when this research is performed which can make it incompatible with a part-time schedule. The time requirements can also be massive - between classes, teaching, lab research, field research, and being the de-facto lab manager, I easily put in 70-80 hours a week. I even had to sign an agreement that I wouldn’t seek outside work or I’d lose my funding, which ultimately was comical given I wouldn’t have the time
My edit didn’t expand anything. I was already talking about how this affected people’s families and going far beyond simple tuition affording. Even if your tuition is covered you still have to be able to afford to not have a full-time job that pays anything for that amount of time. I feel like you’re being intentionally obtuse.
I don’t know how to put this more gently. You’re speaking about a subject that, for anyone familiar with it, it’s pretty clear you don’t know much about, and are getting defensive and doubling down when anyone contradicts you.
It seems like you’re more interested in feeling right than actually being right, and I’m just not interested in wasting my time with someone who would rather write paragraph after paragraph about how other people are wrong than spend 60 seconds first looking online to check if they’re actually right themselves.
My original comment was about what was being lost in addition to those who have a PhD. About their families and what it took from them for that person to get a PhD.
At this point I don’t even think you read my comment. You are being an ass about having tuition covered like that’s all that it takes to get a PhD. You didn’t contradict me you moved the goalpost and won’t accept it when I try to move them back. I literally have family with a PhD in higher education administration who I find far more trustworthy on this subject than a random internet asshole who has offered nothing but “trust me bro”.
The bottom line is that graduate degrees are expensive and tuition is only part of what it takes. If you personally are too blind to see what was sacrificed by others for you to go through this then I feel sorry for those people.
Fucking hell mate. Not a single shred of self awareness on you, is there?
At least I actually read your comments. Even though they didn’t have anything to do with the class war I was talking about and you come off like an uppity douche.
Go to Europe. My MSc cost me €1500.
I’ve spent more than 15 years trying to get out of the US. It’s pretty much only possible if you can trace your lineage back to Europe which as a Native American who has maybe a tiny bit of Scottish I can’t. Or if you get a job in Europe. I can’t even afford a European vacation.
It’s absolutely possible but it’s not easy if you don’t have a in demand profession.
One of my closest friends left the US for Germany with about $5000, a suitcase of clothes, and absolutely no specialized work skills. He worked in hostels for room and board, and did part time work for spending money. He had to skirt immigration laws while working to get permanent residency, but got his education in IT for only minor fees each semester and became a citizen after ten years.
It can be done, but it’s much more difficult without lots of money, family, or similar advantages.
What do you mean? Masters are extremely pricey, but in general a PhD candidate will pay nothing out of pocket, and likely will get a stipend.
Source? The only numbers I have ever seen place PhDs at more expensive per credit hour than a masters.
https://research.collegeboard.org/media/pdf/Trends-in-College-Pricing-and-Student-Aid-2025-final_1.pdf
But if it’s something you’re seriously considering, I recommend settling on your research topic, and looking into the specific universities you’re considering. Each school tends to report really good data regarding their graduate schools. Start reaching out to the professors you’d consider studying under, they generally are very responsive if you come with directed questions relevant to their area of study. From there you can work with the university admin to understand what funding options may be available to you.
I appreciate your response. Also, that you seem to be being more cordial than other people in this thread. However, I’m unable to find anything in the report that you linked that Indicates that PhD students aren’t taking out loans. The report seems to lump masters and PhD students together and indicates that they’re taking out many times higher loans than undergraduate students. Perhaps I just missed the part that shows that.
More to my original point though, even what you are describing would be incredibly expensive. And require that my wife find a job there too. Which is why I mentioned families in my original comment. In order for anybody to get a PhD their parents or spouse has to be able to support that person including moving and having a job themselves or whatever that entails.
You’re absolutely right, it’s not easy to do. But it’s also one reason it’s good to check with specific universities. What you’ll find is that many try very hard to provide stipends, and if you help lead lectures you can even get an income. It’s not unusual to net ~20k a year. That won’t cover rent and food, but it’s not bad!
This of course is only for research degrees. Law and medical degrees will be incredibly expensive.
So as a more detailed example, BU offers “full funding guarantee”. https://www.bu.edu/grad/admission-funding/phd-funding
You would be living tight, but you wouldn’t be going into debt. Many schools offer similar programs.