15 billion to private companies to retool and whatever. But then they sell us what they make. None of that goes back to the tax payers.
If you work for someone else in this country you are a joke it seems.
Stopping climate change benefits everyone, including the taxpayers.
This isn’t going to put a dent in climate change. It just isn’t. Wake me up when we change our stance on Nuclear since that is the only thing that will bolster renewable energy, which is a stop gap.
Furthermore, if the US government actually cared about fighting climate change they would invest in public transportation across the country, making those EV, since they A. Go shorter distances and B. Can carry more people, and they would also tax the shit out of the fossil fuel industry and manufacturing sector for their wonton pollution. It’s called internalizing the externalities and it needed to happen 10 years ago. We’re so fucked.
Exactly. EV cars are meant to save the car industry, not the planet.
It just isn’t.
OH SHIT, SOMEONE CALL THE SCIENTISTS, THIS DUDE ON THE INTERNET HAS PROVED ALL OF YOU WRONG
renewable energy, which is a stop gap
Shill detected.
Stopping climate change by…
Removing fossil fuels from the grid? Reducing methane leakage in natural gas transmission? Developing domestic nuclear energy?
Maybe reducing car-dependency to make more efficient use of land and reduce the excessive amounts of taxpayer money being dumped to subsidize suburban development? Reducing inefficient flights between close cities (LAX-SFO, BOS-JFK-DCA)? Building more efficient buildings?
How about taking advantage of the already insanely efficient supply chains in China that allow for the development of sub-10k EVs? Helping those companies launch in the US and bring their expertise with them to accelerate the EV transition like China has?
Nah, let’s just give some more money to a few big EV manufacturers, I’m sure that’ll fix everything.
More than one thing can happen at the same time.
I’m sorry for shattering your world-view like this.
You realize how much money is going towards EV subsidies? They’re extremely inefficient uses of money.
Not nearly enough. We need to be subsidizing them to the level we subsidize oil.
The only way to stop climate change is to drastically reduce the human population.
We pay at least twice. Isn’t that how it’s supposed to be?
(/S)
“oh it’s expensive to make electric vehicles so we have to upsell them at 50k+, even though we get government support”
I really want to go electric, but the milage just isn’t there yet for me, and add in the charging time and new maintenance routines of swapping out those batteries. I just haven’t done enough research.
I don’t think there’s anything bad with giving the manufacturers money to switch their entire production facilities to electric, I just hope the government actually understands what those funds are being used for, unlike the money they gave our ISPs for infrastructure upgrades that went to waste.
The shells may be similar or the same but inside it would be like asking an apple orchard to change all their trees to oranges, and these funds will help expedite that.
I get 300 mile range and can recharge from 20-80% in under a half hour (a road trip lunch break).
It’s getting there quickly!
Mileage seems fine to me. My gas car gets 260-280 maybe. Electric hits similar numbers.
Charge times are getting pretty low too. 20 minutes is becoming common to hear a new car doing 20-80%. That’s slower than gas but also I’ll only do that in a pinch. Most charging will be at home during the night.
The maintenance differences are a mixed bag though. I think a lot of EVs will be essentially disposed of once the batteries are showing age.
If the phone industry can reach us anything it is manufacturers will make it expensive to change or not make the batteries.
With all that said. Giving car companies money to help them mine rare metals in 3rd world countries, buy motors from China, assemble cars in Mexico and the US…idk how that makes financial sense.
And before anyone tells me the money is only for US plants…I’ll ask you to get real.
I do as well. However, I read that if you have an economy car the best thing for climate change is to drive it until it dies. Not throw it out and get an EV.
Yes I would love to use mass transit for everything but that isn’t practical for my line of work.
They’re working on improving range, it just isn’t there yet. Recharge overnight at home if you have a garage and it will likely never be a problem, in the vent you don’t have a place to charge slowly overnight or need a charge up on a trip then super chargers are being added all over the place daily, with government investment helping that as well. The maintenance routine is nothing, you need a new battery after nearly a decade, most people are getting a new car on that schedule, even if you plan to keep a car for decades you’ll have major repairs/replacements on a ice vehicle just as much if not more than electric.
Swapping ice to electric isn’t that difficult, ford even sells a crate electric motor and the tools/instructions to replace a gas engine with it in nearly any vehicle.
I fully agree that the government needs to set guidelines, controls, and a series of deep audits over several decades to ensure this money is being spent appropriately. Too often they just hand out cash to corps with no follow up to make sure it didn’t get spent on bonuses
What do you mean the range isn’t there yet? How often do you travel 300+ miles between a charge?
I would 2-3 times a year. And when I did it would be probably 3 charges in each direction, maybe 4 considering heat and a/c and several suitcases of weight. Enough that it wouldn’t be convenient, but that’s why we’ll keep an ICE van around for a while yet.
So you choose to inconvenience yourself 2-3 times a month because of something you only do 2-3 times a year? I get people who complain about range when they take road trips every month or live in very cold climates or have long commutes, but 2-3 times a year you can rent a car for the money you would save on gas and maintenance.
No idea what you’re talking about, but it’s our second vehicle. Primary is a Volt, so PHEV with the longest range. Most days we use no gas because I work from home and we only use the van a couple times a week when the kids need to be in different places at the same time.
Why not use the Volt for the long trips? It uses gas.
Every time I go home to see my family, I’d have to stop halfway and sit at a charger for a bit. That’s why I own a hybrid now since electric doesn’t meet my needs and EVs are still so damned expensive
Why don’t you just fly?
No airport in villages in the middle of nowhere my dude. Nearest airport I could get a flight into is an hour+ away and I’d have to drive at least 45 minutes to an airport small enough to fly into it. The only real feasible way to get there is drive since America refuses to build non-freight trains
Welp, sounds like you drive waaaaaaaaay more than the average. You live in the middle of the wilderness and frequently drive 500 miles each way. You’re an edge case so it’s gonna be a while before a solution is developed for you.
Fortunately, there’s few enough people in your position that if only the people who drive such an extraordinary amount use ICE vehicles, it will be a tiny contribution to climate change.
If your daily driving is <50 miles or so, a plug-in hybrid is a good option. That way you only burn gas on those long trips.
Charging needs a huge overhaul and standardization at a minimum. Being able to charge at home helps, but that’s 50% or less of people can do it. The big problem is travel, there’s way to many different apps, broken chargers, and not actually fast chargers. Especially outside Tesla’s super chargers.
Pretty much every brand is adopting teslas chargers now and more will likely follow. Since ford/GM/Nissan/etc are already adopting it for NA then it will likely become the standard so all will use the same chargers capable of the same speeds. Also iirc the latest infrastructure act included building a fuckload of true supercharging stations
We will always give money to our industries to make up for the lack of long term planning in our system. I certainly do not understand what concept of fucking justice that is related to.
neoliberalism in a nutshell
I was hoping for a cash for clunkers 2.0
Cash for clunker was one of the worst policies in history for classic car enthusiasts
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Cash for Clunkers impacted the used car market for well over a decade.
Hell I’ll take a clunker to e-clunker conversion kit plan.
Is that something that’s even remotely viable? I mean I’m sure it’s technically possible but there’s way more to it than just an engine swap, I’m not sure it would be any cheaper than just building a new car.
I mean poor folk aren’t getting any cheap options anytime soon, new or used. It’d be nice to have the option for a $7k-9k conversion, but with a decent rebate to make it viable, along with the ability to pay over time. And EV conversions seems to have gone down in cost than when I last looked, if we can get it down even more heck yeah!
I would love to see that, if nothing else than to give classic cars new life as EVs or hybrids. Probably not something for purist-type collectors who want to keep things as stock as possible, but there are so many absolutely iconic old cars that I would love to continue to see kept alive.
New EVs in China are going for 10k, so it’s clearly possible…
“Strong and just”? You’re not going to win over fascists by using their keywords. Maybe tone it down a little for those of us who still recall “Operation Shock and Awe” and the “War on drugs” and “The PATRIOT Act” and all the associated “collateral damage”.
It just makes me think there’s something hidden in there of which we should all be very suspicious, even if there might not be.
Note: I welcome less environmental damage and reskilling workers into sustainable energy industries and products. I hope this bill isn’t the result of industry lobbying by EV manufacturers, but I note the lack of environmental goals contrasts with the large amounts of money being put into industry grants and loans.
Having the feds $15.5 billion on EVs is a waste unless you nationalize the railroads.
Should be fining the fucking companies instead of cuddling them with more money. “Oh, you’ve been constantly fighting this thing I want you to do, here’s some money so maaaaaaaaaayyyyybe you’ll do it now, pretty please?”
15B is a drop in the bucket. Throwing money at things doesn’t solve problems. Especially that small an amount. Only better policy decisions solve problems.
This is just gonna fuck the poor who can’t afford electric cars, while the upper class who can afford them will get more breaks
Car is a privilege not a right. Use bus.
Your mum is taking up all the seats
I really don’t want an electric car.
Edit: I really didn’t expect such a response to my comment or I would have elaborated. Primary factor is cost, cost of replaceing the battery and initial cost of the vehicle purchase.
I do not have money to buy a new vehicle and there is no way I’m going to buy a used electric vehicle. A used electric vehicle will probably Also need a need battery. Until longevity can be proven I’m going to take that gamble.
Also repairability is another very big factor in not getting an electric vehicle for me. I am going to be buying a used car I don’t think I will ever buy a new car even if I had the money and a used electric vehicle is not in the cards until they can prove longevity and you can’t do that with a lithium ion battery.
In addition the electronic parts including the battery use rare, precious metals that are becoming increasingly rare. We don’t even have a way to recycle those batteries as far as I am aware. I’m not saying we don’t need a better alternative, but, I don’t think that’s it.
And that’s okay! There are plenty of ways to use climate-friendly means of transportation if your area has the infrastructure for it. If it doesn’t, buying/utilizing used cars with good gas mileage and adjusting how much you drive, supporting climate-friendly legislation, and raising awareness are the best things you can do until biking/walking/etc. is more accessible for you - or until you can move to a high-density area with those options, if that’s the goal.
Electric cars are a great step forward, but currently lack the efficiency and affordability of ICE vehicles. Plus, they ultimately serve as a means to maintain the stability of the Auto industry in an increasingly environmentally-conscious society.
That’s a very big issue, cost, I can’t afford to buy any new car and there’s no way I’m buying a used electric. Cost of battery replacement and repairability is another huge factor.
Could Intrest you in an Ebike?
I can understand the sentiment. It might help to explain why, though.
You are right I updated my comment as I mentioned in the update I really didn’t expect to have that kind of a response so I didn’t bother putting more work into it and I should have.
Great thoughts on the situation!
Thank you, that’s very kind
Same here! My main issues/concerns are due to weather and the lack of a place to charge up. Already this year we’ve seen how they don’t do well in extreme cold or heat. And my area also had significant storms recently so flooding, no power, etc. And I live in an area will large hills (look like mountains, but not quite) and my friends with electric cars complain about it quite a bit. It drains the battery and struggles on some inclines.
The best I’ve seen so far is a Lexus hybrid sedan a friend has. Handles the terrain well, charges as you drive, doesn’t need plugged in at all.
I feel like they need to have more going for them until we can all switch.
Same concerns. Also cost, cost to replace the battery, cost for the car and repairability.
I really don’t want an electric car.
Welcome to the wonderful world of buses!
Electric buses in London are bloody amazing! Love them! Trains are better though…
You said that a already
Then don’t. I’m not, my next car will be ICE and the one after that. It’s neat to watch people waste their money on these EVs though.
