She finds the whole idea absurd. To Prof Marci Shore, the notion that the Guardian, or anyone else, should want to interview her about the future of the US is ridiculous. She’s an academic specialising in the history and culture of eastern Europe and describes herself as a “Slavicist”, yet here she is, suddenly besieged by international journalists keen to ask about the country in which she insists she has no expertise: her own. “It’s kind of baffling,” she says.
In fact, the explanation is simple enough. Last month, Shore, together with her husband and fellow scholar of European history, Timothy Snyder, and the academic Jason Stanley, made news around the world when they announced that they were moving from Yale University in the US to the University of Toronto in Canada. It was not the move itself so much as their motive that garnered attention. As the headline of a short video op-ed the trio made for the New York Times put it, “We Study Fascism, and We’re Leaving the US”.
Starkly, Shore invoked the ultimate warning from history. “The lesson of 1933 is: you get out sooner rather than later.” She seemed to be saying that what had happened then, in Germany, could happen now, in Donald Trump’s America – and that anyone tempted to accuse her of hyperbole or alarmism was making a mistake. “My colleagues and friends, they were walking around and saying, ‘We have checks and balances. So let’s inhale, checks and balances, exhale, checks and balances.’ I thought, my God, we’re like people on the Titanic saying, ‘Our ship can’t sink. We’ve got the best ship. We’ve got the strongest ship. We’ve got the biggest ship.’ And what you know as a historian is that there is no such thing as a ship that can’t sink.”
Must be nice to be financially stable enough to run away.
An academic who’s job is is to know these things is spending the money to do it. That’s the take away here. They’re the Canary in the Coal Mine.
yeah, you got the same vibe from the political professors that Jon Stewart had on his podcast last week. Just depressed and resigned.
I don’t know your story or your financial situation.
It is a sad reality that in the US there are literally millions who probably can’t leave even if it was life or death. But i feel like your comment directs your anger and pain towards those who are in at the very least a similar boat to you. Considering that she is an academic, I doubt she is rich, probably middle class at best. The billionaires stole from you, she is probably a victim of this system just like you.
She is lucky to be able to leave, but realistically she is probably just putting a much bigger weight on this issue than most and I would guess that she sees this as a life or death situation. I think that in a life or death situation, most people can afford to leave to Canada, this isn’t that crazy nor does it cost a fortune. It is true that not all people can, but I’m pretty sure that by far most can.
This.
There are very many shades of “I can’t leave”.
- I can’t leave because I would lose money/friends/job
- I can’t leave because I’d have to rebuild everything.
- I can’t leave because I can’t afford to bring all my stuff.
- I can’t leave because I physically don’t have the money for a plane ticket, a passport and the immigration process and I’d have to take out a loan
- I can’t leave because I don’t have the money for the plane ticket, a passport and the immigration process and I cannot take out a loan
Depending on how urgently you want to leave, some of these reasons are “can’t leave” or turn into “I’ll leave anyway”.
I could never leave until every other person I know that wanted to get out makes it out. I couldn’t live with myself knowing I was strong enough to help people that got stuck dealing with whatever bull shit scenario is coming down the line. I truly hope that people that know they can’t handle it do make it out safe because it is surely going to get crazier than any other time in recent history … at least that people in the west have had to deal with.
People are going to need their cars, houses and anything else they can keep alive up and running.
Just be prepared to not rat anyone out !
All the ways to escape that didn’t require lots of money are all long gone
Most people who run from their country are all but financially stable.
That’s a shit lesson to take from 33. My takeaway is don’t let the brown shirts win. I’m not running from my country with my tail between my legs.
Fascists can fuck off, in fact
707 millions just assembled to say just that.Edit: I didn’t think staying in my country of birth and fighting for freedom and decency would be such a hot button issue.
To all of you who felt the need to be condescending I’d just say tighten up and show some backbone. Real disappointing. So you may be shot and sent to a gulag. You wouldn’t be the first, probably not the last. Try not to let fear and righteousness dictate your feelings.
If you read the rest of the article, she addresses that. She doesn’t believe that she is personally brave enough to physically confront what is coming, so for her, the choice is get out now while she can and be vocal.
What a matter of fact way to express cowardice
Much better to be self aware of it and account for it, than to get yourself and others killed due to your false bravado.
It doesn’t take much bravery to stand in a crowd with hundreds or thousands of other people.
Lol, you think this is going to end with just calmly standing in a crowd?
Statistically if the crowd is big enough it should end. But I kinda think if Trump kicks the bucket or lets Steven Miller have any more power, that getting out with my family will be necessary.
Probably not, but that’s the most that’s been asked of this lady so far and she couldn’t even muster the courage to do that. Running away before you make any attempt to fight for all the people who made you who you are is some weak shit.
Again, being aware of your own limitations and doing what you can is preferable to faking it, and falling apart when it counts.
Not everyone can be a super tough guy like you surely are.
You sound naive. She studies dictators and she grew up in a neighbourhood of holocaust survivors. Teachers and their students are already being taken by ICE and it may become harder for targeted groups to find safety. This is not a question of “standing in a crowd”.
What an armchair thing to say
I don’t think that’s true at all but even if it were, sitting in an armchair in America is more helpful than sitting in an armchair in Canada which is what this lady is doing.
It’s quite a silly thing to get all high and mighty about. You don’t have that person’s life or thoughts/feelings.
I don’t need to know anything about this person to know that leaving is the cowards choice. She’s telling everyone else who can’t leave that they aren’t as important and they have to sort this out without her. Don’t try to spin that as some sort of noble act. We win together or we lose apart. I don’t want to hear any lectures on history or morailty from people who would rather save themselves than help their fellow citizens.
You feeling personally attacked here isn’t the person’s fault, who, btw, I am not saying is doing something noble. Just pointing out how weird it is that you’re acting this way about it.
It didn’t sound high and mighty to me. She left a position of influence and (some small amount) of power just when shit is starting to get real. Fair weather patriot. Best of luck in Toronto. I’ll stay here with the hundreds of millions for whom leaving isn’t a viable option.
Uh ok
As if uprooting your entire life and moving doesn’t take any form of bravery.
You can dress it up in whatever way you choose but leaving is running away and that’s explicitly the opposite of bravery.
My sentiments exactly.
Not sure where your getting that 70 million number, but according to Wikipedia it was some 5 million.
Not to criticize, but I think it’s important not to spread inaccuracies and over inflate turnout numbers like a certain someone likes to do.
Edit: Lemmy post with final count numbers on attendance. Looks like it’s a bit larger than initially thought, which is fantastic!
Another takeaway from that article: 7 of the top 10 were during Trump’s presidency.
Oh don’t you know? The media just has it out for him. For: illegitimate reasons we never have to talk about/s
It’s not like people have good reason to find trump uniquely terrible. TDS!!!1 /s
The brown shirts have the keys to the kingdom, and so there’s no easy way to get rid of them. By my count they’ve already won, and will be able to do a depressing amount of damage before anyone could hope to stop them. If you’re a vulnerable group who has the opportunity to leave and isn’t ready to die fighting, leaving is the safest bet.
Your usage of “70 million” is a cope just like her “checks and balances”. There was nowhere near that amount of people. Not even 10 million. The protests were largely cancelled because of the political assassination.
I looked for photos of protests and the ones I saw did not have anywhere near these amounts of people. A few hundred to a couple thousand at any one city. America is very okay with fascism.
You’re correct that 70 million is a large overstatement, but wrong about the rest
https://www.yahoo.com/news/no-kings-biggest-protest-u-172552711.html
Bullshit. Only Minnesota cancelled protests during the manhunt for the conservative political assassin and tens of thousands showed up in the Minnesota capital anyway. And in other Minnesota cities and villages as well. Estimates range from 25,000 to 80,000 depending on the source. And it had no effect at all on anywhere else in the country. In Salt Lake City Utah an innocent protestor was killed by security shooting at a different man who they say had grabbed a gun and headed towards protesters and still 10,000 people marched there, in one of the most Republican states in the Union.
Seventy million is probably an exaggeration but your numbers are contradicted with thousands of news pictures taken from marches big and small across the country. And many more didn’t even make the news, like the one at the VA Center in West Los Angeles where I saw men waving a huge California flag and a banner saying SEMPER FI TO THE CONSTITUTION! DUMP TRUMP! as all the cars across 6 lanes of traffic honked in support.
And for clarification, the Minnesota protests weren’t cancelled. The governor merely told people to stay home while the police searched for the assassin, but they showed up at the Capitol anyway. Some of the government officials cancelled, but there were still some who showed up and spoke anyway, because Minnesota doesn’t let MAGA terrorists dictate what they do.
She did her part by educating us and it’s obvious she’ll be among the first to be targeted. It only makes sense that she should flee.
I, for one, am grateful that she spoke the truth in that NYT opinion piece.
Right? I don’t get people here mocking her for leaving. The first people to be removed or “disappeared” in fascists states are the bogeymen “others” - the foreigners, the ones that are easy targets and can’t fight back. The next ones are the obvious liberal dissenters. First the regular people, the scientists and liberal teachers, the students, then the liberal politicians. The smart people are always targeted.
As others have already commented, not everyone can just leave. Also, if we could all leave, who would take so many USA immigrants?
Not everyone has the option but those who do and are at risk and know they can’t bring upon any positive change by staying, should leave.
Yeah. My sister’s spouse is NB and they have significant means. I encourage them to leave with my nephew because I want them all safe.
I’m a white, male, Christian gun-owner. I can blend in for now and don’t have the same financial resources. I’m also single and childless, so I can also care for my parents who are blind to what’s happening.
I’m a white, male, Christian gun-owner. I can blend in for now
What. The. Fuck.
I won’t be targeted. It’s awful that it matters, but it does.
Indeed, I’m not saying what you are saying is wrong, precisely that you being right is scary.
She seemed to be saying that what had happened then, in Germany, could happen now, in Donald Trump’s America – and that anyone tempted to accuse her of hyperbole or alarmism was making a mistake.
I’d argue that it IS happening already
My colleagues and friends, they were walking around and saying, ‘We have checks and balances. So let’s inhale, checks and balances, exhale, checks and balances.’
Er, no, America, you don’t have checks and balances. Not any more. Have you not been paying attention? That stuff is GONE.
Um, that’s exactly what she was saying.
Yes.
Why would she flee to Canada? If she knows what happened in 1930s Germany then she knows what happened to their neighbours a few years later, right?
Cries in Canadian lol
I have been telling people… Run. Now. If you can’t, make sure you are set up to run at a moment’s notice. Money, passport , whatever is needed
IN WW22 Germany the only ones who survived… Got out at the beginning
I left, but am completely dependent on my US Social Security retirement, which I paid into my whole working life. What if the fascists shut it down? 72 year old homeless wandering the world?
I also left, absolutely no regrets. The US was holding me back and it was dangerous for me to live there. But I still tear up every time I think about the community I left behind
Albert Einstein left Germany too. However, I have heard it was more about money and the fucking Nazis were the number 2 reason.
Einstein was fucking Nazis?
Rule 34.
