• BrokebackHampton@kbin.social
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    3 years ago

    That is factually false information. There are solid arguments to be made against nuclear energy.

    https://isreview.org/issue/77/case-against-nuclear-power/index.html

    Even if you discard everything else, this section seems particularly relevant:

    The long lead times for construction that invalidate nuclear power as a way of mitigating climate change was a point recognized in 2009 by the body whose mission is to promote the use of nuclear power, the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA). “Nuclear power is not a near-term solution to the challenge of climate change,” writes Sharon Squassoni in the IAEA bulletin. “The need to immediately and dramatically reduce carbon emissions calls for approaches that can be implemented more quickly than building nuclear reactors.”

    https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-is-nuclear-energy-good-for-the-climate/a-59853315

    Wealer from Berlin’s Technical University, along with numerous other energy experts, sees takes a different view.

    “The contribution of nuclear energy is viewed too optimistically,” he said. “In reality, [power plant] construction times are too long and the costs too high to have a noticeable effect on climate change. It takes too long for nuclear energy to become available.”

    Mycle Schneider, author of the World Nuclear Industry Status Report, agrees.

    “Nuclear power plants are about four times as expensive as wind or solar, and take five times as long to build,” he said. “When you factor it all in, you’re looking at 15-to-20 years of lead time for a new nuclear plant.”

    He pointed out that the world needed to get greenhouse gases under control within a decade. “And in the next 10 years, nuclear power won’t be able to make a significant contribution,” added Schneider.

    • NUMPTY37K@lemmy.world
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      3 years ago

      Long lead times against nuclear have bee raised for the last 25 years, if we had just got on with it we would have the capacity by now. Just cause the lead time is in years doesn’t mean it isn’t worth doing.

      • CommanderM2192@lemmy.world
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        3 years ago

        “But I won’t see the benefit in MY lifetime!”

        Now, where have we heard that kind of reasoning and logic before? What current crisis has been caused by that way of thinking?

      • Quacksalber@sh.itjust.works
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        3 years ago

        Long lead times, cost overruns, producing power at a higher price point than renewables, long run time needed to break even, even longer dismantling times and a still unsolved waste problem. Compared to renewables that we can build right now.

            • CommanderM2192@lemmy.world
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              3 years ago

              Did you even read my comment? What’s your solution for the waste from solar power and the batteries needed to store it? That is a far more immediate and even longer-term problem.

              Radioactive waste can be stored completely safely underground. The only reason we aren’t is because of “bleeding heart” morons who demand 100% safety, but only when it comes to nuclear. If we’re going to apply your concerns fairly, then solar power and anything involving battery farms is completely off the table. It’s far more damaging and more immediate than properly stored nuclear waste.

              I would know this because part of my career has involved the manufacture and R&D for various types of solar panels. You have no idea what goes into making them and the challenges involving their safe disposal.

              There’s a reason why I hate conservatives and don’t care about the wellbeing of liberals. Conservatives actively fuck shit up and you morons enable them.

              EDIT: To respond to your edit, no they can’t be.

              https://www.epa.gov/hw/solar-panel-recycling

              Other materials located within the solar cells may be more difficult to recycle. Silver and internal copper are valuable components, but panels typically contain very small amounts of these materials. Toxic metals like lead and cadmium may also be present in solar panels.

              How about you do some research instead of using a link from an organization that has a financial interest in getting you to buy solar panels and use them for recycling? Of course we can recycle the frames and glass in solar panels, that’s fucking easy. But nobody is worried about poisoning the environment from fucking glass. What’s your plan for the actual toxic metals and other chemicals in them?

              • Quacksalber@sh.itjust.works
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                3 years ago

                The plan is the same as for all other parts, recycling. The US gas no provisions about recycling currently, which is the reason people choose the cheapest disposal method currently, just dumping it.

    • Jumuta@sh.itjust.works
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      3 years ago

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashiwazaki-Kariwa_Nuclear_Power_Plant

      the largest fission plant was literally working 5 years after construction started

      fission plants are just more expensive now because we don’t make enough of them.

      I guess safety standards changed but even wind power kills more people per watt than fission so ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

      Nuclear could’ve easily worked if people didn’t go full nimby in the past few decades

    • CommanderM2192@lemmy.world
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      3 years ago

      And there are solid counter-arguments to those. Would we have long lead times if nuclear power had been developed to the point where it was easier to build and we had more workers already trained in building them?

      The more experienced construction workers you have, the more experienced scientists and engineers making necessary components, the cheaper it gets. Look at how expensive computers used to be compared to today. If we hadn’t of had Luddites getting in the way of nuclear power for half a century then we wouldn’t have this issue.

      All the more reason to move forward with nuclear power and continue improving it before it really is too late.

      “Long lead times” is utter, fucking bullshit. I’m sick and tired of “pro-environment” useful idiots shilling against nuclear power. What’s your alternative? Renewables that can’t scale to meet demand due to the laws of physics, geography, and engineering limitations? More coal and oil plants? Huge battery farms for storing electricity from renewables; the kind of batteries that devastate the environment with mining and destroy third world communities? Fusion power plants in two centuries? Get real and stop being a moron.

      • uis@lemmy.world
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        3 years ago

        If we hadn’t of had Luddites getting in the way of nuclear power for half a century then we wouldn’t have this issue.

        I think this insults Luddites. Luddites are not stupid to get in a way of nuclear power.

    • Carighan Maconar@lemmy.world
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      3 years ago

      That is true, building a nuclear power plant doesn’t help. The problem is how many we closed down in a panic, in particular after Fukushima. We could make great strides towards cleaner energy and cutting the actually problematic power plants (coal, gas) out of the picture as we slowly transition to renewables-only if we had more nuclear power available.

      Of course, in hindsight it’s difficult to say how one could have predicted this. There’s good reasons against nuclear energy, it just so happens that in the big picture it’s just about the second-best options. And we cut that out first, instead of the worse ones.

    • grue@lemmy.world
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      3 years ago

      Those aren’t arguments against nuclear power; those are arguments against the incompetence of entities like Southern Company and Westinghouse, as well as the Public Service Commission that fails to impose the burden of cost overruns on the shareholders where they belong.

      I should know; I’m a Georgia Power ratepayer who’s on the hook paying for the fuck-ups and cost overruns of Plant Vogtle 3 and 4.

      It would’ve been way better if they’d been built back in the '70s, since all indications are that the folks who built units 1 and 2 actually had a fucking clue what they were doing!

      • zik@lemmy.world
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        3 years ago

        Sadly it looks like the astroturfing has spilled over from reddit to here