A Georgia school board voted along party lines Thursday to fire a teacher after officials said she improperly read a book on gender fluidity to her fifth grade class.
why the fuck is a schoolboard voting “along party lines.” I know it’s been this way for a while, but it doesn’t make it any less stupid that your godamn political party decides your EVERY attitude in life.
You’d also love to know that some hospitals boards are public and therefore elected positions are available to the community.
In Sarasota County in Florida they tried to get enough votes to take over the board to change the hospital policy from following CDC policy and best practices to the sole discretion of the doctor. This would of allowed the hospital to prescribe ivermectin to treat COVID.
It ultimately failed so they are now opening a clinic in Venice Florida that follows no guidelines. The other half of the building is a podcast studio.
I’m trying to wrap my head around the intent.
Is this a case where she was fired because the book didn’t have anything to do with the class she’s teaching? Or because a bunch of parents went Karen and it made the school district look bad?
If a history class references passages from the bible, I think that is inappropriate in general but it depends on context. If it’s using the bible to explain say the history of the Holy War, that makes sense. Having the context about the why does help.
If she was teaching Sex Ed and talking about gender fluidity, in that context it makes sense to me.
Like you can’t talk about Hitler’s philosophies without being up Mein kampf even at a shallow level. And to ignore it is disingenuous to education.
The thing is: You need the kids to have this information before puberty really starts to take off so they know what’s going on with them when they start to feel things that are related to gender fluidity/homosexuality/whatever, so they grow up without the self-doubts and such but with the feeling that what they are is just another human being.
Things related to sexual attraction (e.g. homosexuality) might start around puberty, but things related to gender itself can start even earlier than that. This source claims that about ¾ of folks with gender dysphoria first experience it by age 7.
The intent is transphobia, anything else is an excuse.
I mean they have a very logical point, it’s probably unlikely but for example you would have to admit if it was a maths class and there was an important standardized exam coming up, such unrelated material would be a highly unusual waste of time and in contempt of the time sensitive curriculum. We can’t just politicize every headline and grab our pitchforks before we get the full picture - details and nuance are important for categorizing things like this. Perhaps it is though, the headline sounds bad but the actual article provides very little further context. Did she know it was a violation of policy and opt to be fired anyway? Why?
Everyone says this but I remember my teachers wasting our time pretty often. I can still tell you about my 7th grade English teacher’s time he met his future daughter-in-law but not the difference between an adverb and a verb.
The thing I remember the most from 5th grade was the day we learned the names of all the NBA teams
Except it isn’t a fucking logical point, it’s whataboutism and an army of strawmen.
And by playing devils advocate with these empty fallacies (and admitting you haven’t even bothered to read the details, or know anything about this book that has you running scared), you are actively (and to my personal impression, deliberately) contributing to the problem.deleted by creator
there is a nuanced difference between transphobia and not wanting to discuss topics that cause arguments in a school
It’s still transphobia, the only reason it’s viewed as a political topic is because of transphobia. It’s pretty cowardly to say we should avoid talking about gender/trans issues just because it makes people uncomfortable, and might cause arguments. Trans people exist, but you’re arguement kinda says to me “They aren’t worth the trouble, id rather sideline them to avoid disagreements.”.
Abortion is a rough comparison, it’s a heavy topic and I think it would probably be inappropriate for more reasons than just being a “Political” topic.
deleted by creator
The ‘insubordination’ part is especially confounding. She’s insubordinate by reading a children’s book to children? What?
She’s insubordinate by reading a children’s book to children? What?
If it’s "insubordination’ then it’s safe to assume either (a) she was explicitly told not to do this by a superior, or (b) there must be a rule or regulation against it in the school district.
Or (c) they’re making up bullshit reasons to fire her.
Applying logic to bigotry is a waste of time. It’s just ingroup loyalty. The rest is mouth noises. They won’t be clever noises, and they won’t be consistent noises.
This is the dumbest reason to fire a teacher. The education system is already hurting for teachers.
Removed by mod
I just don’t understand why 5th graders should even be exposed to that that early. For kids that haven’t even gone through puberty yet I think gender identity is a pretty mature topic, and I don’t think I’d want a teacher being the one to discuss it with my child.
And before someone says that I just want to suppress the info keeping it out of school, what about the flip side where a nut job teacher decides 2 genders is part of the lesson plan?
Edit: Never been so dogpiled about a comment before. In MY OPINION I just think 5th grade is too early. According to the hive mind I am wrong.
I also get nervous having government agencies (schools) involved with anything lgbtq+. We all know the government and our courts always side with the compassionate and accepting side. And would never suppress people’s rights. /S
Some of you are out of control, I never thought that comment would cause people to assume my gender, orientation, political affiliation, hell one of you assumed my race (wtf)
5th grade seems like an appropriate time to start educating students about this as part of their health curriculum. That’s the grade when they gave us the puberty talk in my old school district.
Some early bloomers absolutely start puberty during or before 5th grade.
For people outside the US how old would 5th graders actually be?
The teacher was fired for teaching gender theory, not sex education. Those are very different things and I suspect you know that.
Yes they are two different things but they are related. Puberty can be devastating to a child who isn’t comfortable with their body. In some cases puberty blockers are prescribed to delay the physical changes for children with gender disphoria. So educating gender identity along with puberty isn’t a bad idea.
And yes, some children do start questioning their gender before they start puberty.
But this is all speculative. We don’t know what the context for this teacher reading the book, but calling it inappropriate for their age is wrong.
I think it’s wrong. Gender theory is pretty radical. It has no factual basis. Reinforcing delusions is universally destructive in psychology. As long as those delusions aren’t reinforced, most kids reconcile without intervention. This study found that only 37% of children still identified as dysphoric five years later. This study found that 88% had desisted (they were no longer dysphoric). This mirrors other historical research into various areas of child psychology. Children frequently change identity and beliefs around identity.
As for puberty blockers, they don’t just delay puberty. They also have devastating side effects, including osteoporosis and diabetes. That is why puberty blockers for gender dysphoria have now been banned in Sweden, the United Kingdom, and other European nations.
“When we asked him regularly how his back felt, he said: ‘I’m in pain all the time’,” she added.
This topic is rather personal to me, so I’ve researched it to the best of my abilities. I’m happy to concede this isn’t settled science, but must reinforce that this isn’t settled science. It’s not clear that affirmation is beneficial, and in fact, research indicates the opposite.
Maybe it’s just how I was raised or taught, sex ed didn’t start till 7th/8th grade for me, and looking back seemed like an appropriate age to me.
But this isn’t sex ed. Discussing gender doesn’t mean discussing having sex.
My sister “knew” she was trans when she was around 8. Granted, we didn’t have the terminology back then so…
That being said, how is it a “mature” topic? We teach children the concept of “this boy” and “this girl” much earlier than that. And I’m confused how the concept has anything to do with puberty either.
Said it in another thread on this:
I’m trans.
I figured it out, literally in the fifth grade.
It’s not too early. It’s not too hard. It’s not bad for them. Not having proper knowledge of things has made my life harder and worse than it had to be. If you want to help kids, teaching them things is how you do that. Hiding things from them hurts trans kids, and it makes it easier for predators to predate on kids. If you want to hurt kids, that’s on you, but say it with your fuckin’ chest. Don’t hide behind this line that you know is false.
Oh, and re nutjob teachers:
We teach evolution in school, because the data backs it. We don’t teach creationism in school, because the data doesn’t back it. It’s not that hard, this argument is pointless chaff.
As someone who grew up on the home school christian cult side of things.
I’ve done the abstinence only teaching, to the point I was in my teens and thought all girls had a penis.
Ya, ya, laugh it up.
Only thing I can say is, it doesn’t work, it never did. Once body changes start happening kids have tons of questions and when the answer to those questions is “Do nothing”, that’s not going to be enough.
Especially when we grow up in a society that encourages asking questions and giving answers. Until it gets into this one topic.
“I’m privileged enough to have been born cis and straight in this cis-heteronormative world where my gender and sexuality have been openly discussed and supported (if not enforced) since birth, but when those who are trans and/or gay want to talk openly about how they’ve also known their gender and orientation for just as long, it’s suddenly a sensitive topic I don’t think children are ready to hear”
And you know what that says about you?
That you’re not as tolerant or progressive as you like to tell yourself you are.Jesus Christ I just thought 5th grade was too young. I think your reading my comment a little too deep.
No, I’m really not.
Because I guarantee that you have no issue with cis-heteronormative fairy tales being told to kids, nor cis-heteronormative gender stereotypes enforced on them, from significantly younger than the 5th grade. I also guarantee that you don’t give a shit about how those who aren’t cis or hetero are impacted by only ever learning about those who are.
You’re only clutching your “think of the children!!1” pearls now because you’ve been socialised to other trans and gay people and to believe that their entire existence revolves around the act of sex, so in your mind teaching kids about gender (something we all have an experience of, even if we conclude we don’t have one, and are aware of from as early as infancy) is the equivalent of somehow exposing them to porn or some other “immorality” (when the book literally just teaches kids about accepting others).
So you can keep telling yourself whatever you like to make yourself feel better, but the reality is that you are buying in to, and actively perpetuating, transphobia and homophobia.
Most of these discussions don’t really get into the details of it. It isn’t like a 5th grade teacher is going to go into exactly how the surgery and hormon injects work. It is a pretty top level PG rated discussion. I agree if that strawman was happening it would be if nothing else very strange.
There is a difference between telling a kid that two guys can marry and showing a kid a hardcore gay porno.
It’s clearly a children’s book. Do you really think it’s presented in any sort of inappropriate way?
I mean I remember taking biology that went over reproductive anatomy in 6th grade. I feel like gender identity isn’t any more mature of a topic than penises and vaginas. Maybe my school was an outlier though? Either way I think letting kids who might not feel comfortable with their gender know that their feelings are valid is important enough to warrant mentioning in elementary school
Except gender is a much less mature topic than sex and sexual attraction, something that should be taught around 5th grade if not earlier, before children have confusing feelings and their bodies undergo confusing changes. The media atmosphere already leaves impressions about sexuality in the minds of children much earlier, so there isn’t much harm for parents or teachers to discuss the topic in a much healthier way.
Gender on the other hand is something impressed upon and experienced by even toddlers, so the topic of gender isn’t all that mature, it’s only treated as mature because of the social taboos regarding trans individuals.
My daughters went through puberty at 9 and almost 9. That’s 4th grade. The older one knew she was gay by 11. I had sex ed starting in 5th grade back in the fucking 80’s.
Yeah why tell kids about puberty until they’re done with it?
I think it’s common to conflate Gender Dysphoria and sexual maturity since hormone therapy is a common treatment. Here is a study from the nlm about the age transgender adults first experienced symptoms of GD. It’s only one study so maybe do some additional reading.
Yeah, you think they should wait until the trauma really sets in? That’s the right time?
I was in catholic school and started sex ed (well what counts as sex ed for a catholic school) in 5th grade. They told us about some of the most extreme cases of what some.of the worst sti’s do and we watched video of an actual birth so if we could handle hearing and seeing those things in a catholic school, I think 5th graders can handle learning about how people express their genders.
Well, some kids in 5th grade will start to wonder about themselves so it sounds pretty age appropriate to be taught differences exists.
What does puberty have to do with the topic? Should we wait til puberty to teach people that the flu or covid exists? It’s a topic connected to many deaths, so surely it’s a mature topic. Otoh, gender is a pretty basic topic parents force onto children, often before the child is even born. Why do we allow such inappropriate behavior towards literal children?
In response to the edit: I notice you pivoted from it being a function of “maturity” and placement relative to puberty, to now wrapping it in concern of the gov’t - some how - surpressing “lgbtq rights” by teaching about their existence, which is a contradictory stance, but w.e.
Look, my sister’s trans, my mothers are gay, and I’m the straight dood in my family. I’m not in a hivemind, and my experience watching them wade through life informs my thoughts. Your appeal that people who disagree with you are in one is troubling, to say the least.
Heck, you didn’t even address a few anecdotes of people being precisely in the age range you had issue with, and instead chose to take a different tact – instead doubling down you are correct.
I didn’t “pivot”, i didnt brink up the age aspect because it is pretty apparent that i’m in the minority (at least on here) with my opinion, The government / school aspect was before the edit if you look again. I only brought that back up because I felt i could expand my train of thought on it, i didn’t feel there is anything to add about the age when such education is appropriate, especially when me and the other commenters disagree so strongly that nothing will come of it.
I think my teachers did a really good job discussing this when I was a kid. In fact, I think they did such a good job, that it should be the standard until we have a more agreed-upon understanding of gender fluidity. I mean, I’m in favor of teaching it but I understand not everyone is and it’s maybe not fully understood yet.
Way back in 2005, my 5th grade health teacher essentially said this:
"Usually men want to have sex with women and women want to have sex with men. But sometimes, men want to have sex with men, women want to have sex with women, and not everyone feels like they were born in the right body. Sometimes, men feel like women and women feel like men.
You guys have probably heard a lot about gay marriage and homosexuality in the news. This is what they are talking about and adults don’t always agree on some of this. A lot of people think it’s okay to be gay or to change your gender. Other people think it goes against their religion. I’m here if you have any questions, but you can also ask your parents what they think about it."
This was after he sent home a permission slip to talk about sex ed. in general. Every parent signed except for one Muslim girl in the class. She went and watched movies in the room next door because her parents preferred to talk to her about it in their own way.
I thought it was a pretty uncontroversial way to handle this whole thing. We could probably go a bit farther today, but this was pretty progressive for 2005.
I remember this so vividly because I could feel that there was tension around the topic and I could tell that my teacher was respectfully trying to share “both sides” of an issue. I use quotes around both sides because I honestly think homophobia and transphobia are ridiculous views to hold, but I know people have them, unfortunately. And I do think people have some right to dictate what education their child receives even if they’re teaching them abhorrent things.
I remember thinking it was interesting that adults didn’t agree on this. There was a legal battle over gay marriage licenses in New York City going on in 2005 and it was all over the local news, so I remember it being a big deal.
You are 100% correct. Absolutely no reason to be bringing up any of this nonsense to 10 year olds.
But good luck having a logical conversation with some about this - just because you don’t want 10 year olds exposed to this, they immediately (and quite wrongly) accuse of you being some bible-thumper or some right wing nazi or a MAGAt or someone along those lines. Maybe you just know your kid and know it is too early to discuss this stuff with them? This teacher forced the hand of the school board panel to fire her because she specifically pull this stunt against parent wishes.
It is obnoxious to see that many on the far-left act the same way and use the same attack techniques as those on the far-right. They both are just as stubborn and just as closed-minded to altering viewpoints. What makes it especially bad is that liberals at least like to pretend that they are open-minded to differing viewpoints, but the reality is that for many, that is absolutely not the case.
This shit has no business in schools, especially at this young age. Those who are stubbornly pushing this nonsense are doing way more harm than good to liberal causes. These people are painting a terrible picture to the country of what the far-left wants to do and that they will do it regardless of what parents agree to.
You all are setting the movement back, not helping it move forward. You come off as clowns.
The baller move here would be to show up and keep teaching anyways.
She violated district policies on controversial , so she’s wrong. If she was teaching any subject other than human growth and development, she’s doubly wrong.
Elementary school teachers should be teaching their assigned subjects, not their personal politics.
Removed by mod
deleted by creator
