Newsom has consistently and repeatedly fought for trans rights. I dunno why trans advocates are getting hung up on sports. I swear you guys were manipulated into digging your heels in with the dumbest position possible solely to divide and discredit the movement for equality for trans people.
It’s like how the news media will ignore dozens and dozens of innocent Black men getting shot by police until there’s a story of a gang member with a rap sheet a mile long who was actively trying to rape someone when police shot him, and then they’ll run the story hoping that the anti-racists will rush to defend him.
Insisting on having untransitioned or partially transitioned trans women in women’s sports is such an obviously stupid hill to die on. You’re all playing right into their hands.
You’re all playing right into their hands.
Correct. Ask any of these people “defending” women’s sports to name a dozen non-male athletes. Ridicule them upon failure to do so.
such an obviously stupid hill to die on
The Left in the US would so much rather die on the hill of perceived moral superiority than achieve any of their goals. And, thus, here we are.
And centrists will accept any policy as long as it’s to their right.
You don’t know what you’re talking about.
You say that to anyone to your left who doesn’t jump with joy at the latest betrayal of marginalized groups.
I say that to anyone who doesn’t know what they’re talking about.
You arrogantly say it to anyone to your left.
That’s not true. You don’t know what you’re talking about. Stop. Just stop.
Because once you lose one right, the rest fall like domino’s.
Ok then in that case you are SO fucking late to the party
Not placing a value judgement on this, but you can probably expect a lot of Dems to distance themselves on trans issues. It’s a group of issues that takes up a lot of air, and divides the party, while uniting republicans.
It’s stupid because their donors do not want them moving left, so they continue to pander to these nonexistent folks that they think will move away from the republican party to vote for them, leaving behind their actual base, who will simply not vote.
And they have an opportunity to show cowardice.
It’s a case of “follow the leader”. Whenever a candidate wins in a democratic or semi-democratic system, all other candidates become more likely to lean more towards the winning candidate’s positions on issues, either in the hope of peeling off votes or preventing defections from their own moderates.
If only there was some way we could have went the other direction on the issue. Maybe a candidate who wasn’t a openly raging transphobe.
Sports are games.
Games are supposed to be inclusive and fun.
Society taking games deathly serious (and equivocating it with academic merit, aka serious pursuits) is the problem.
People rioting and murdering if the game didn’t work out for their team is the problem. Putting billion dollar stakes on games is the problem.
Trans people or any people wanting to play games with their friends should be what society fosters and nurtures as the entire fucking point of society’s existence. Something something… planting trees something something knowing they’ll never sit under…
Nope? let’s bring on the climate change induced extinction then. If our values are hyper competitive, dog eat dog bullshit from labor to fucking games, we should go extinct.
Trans people or any people wanting to play games with their friends should be what society fosters and nurtures as the entire fucking point of society’s existence. Something something… planting trees something something knowing they’ll never sit under…
Coed teams exist. They’re finding issue with mtf athletes playing against a league of individuals who didn’t go through puberty as a male. That’s clearly an advantage, and to say otherwise is to ignore science altogether.
Maybe the solution is non-gendered weight classes for sports, or just more coed teams. Idk
Edit: yall will convince yourselves of anything lol. Really wild the dumb shit some people will say
What about trans women who transitioned before puberty? What about cis or intersex women with elevated levels of testosterone? What about sports where it has been shown that after a long enough period of medical transition trans people have no significant advantage over their cis counterparts?
You appeal to science yet fail to cite a single source, so let me do it for you:
They’re finding issue with mtf athletes playing against a league of individuals who didn’t go through puberty as a male.
Good news! Puberty blockers exist and have been studied and used for literal decades for other reasons.
That’s clearly an advantage, and to say otherwise is to ignore science altogether.
The science says 2-3 years of hormone therapy levels the playing field and there’s no more advantage.
In fact, women who haven’t transitioned often have an advantage because their testosterone levels can be higher than women who have transitioned.
And that’s the crux of the issue: human variation.
The science says 2-3 years of hormone therapy levels the playing field and there’s no more advantage.
Would you be opposed to a requirement that trans women wanting to compete in women’s leagues undergo 3 years of hormone therapy before being allowed to play?
I think most trans people would agree that’s reasonable, but at that point, you also have to talk about the bans on transition for minors, which would affect a minors ability to have that time frame met, and then their ability to play.
True, and that’s a thorny problem but one that has to be addressed eventually.
They’re finding issue with mtf athletes playing against a league of individuals who didn’t go through puberty as a male. That’s clearly an advantage, and to say otherwise is to ignore science altogether.
That would be an argument worth discussing if the Nazis weren’t also trying to ban puberty blockers and frothing at the mouth claiming the trans agenda is coming for their kids. But no, right now, that’s a garbage bad faith argument, because it already has an obvious answer. That’s how they poison the discussion.
Gavin Newsom is not a Nazi.
If he’s capitulating to Nazis, that makes him complicit. Sorry if he had other good qualities, but he’s bending the knee.
He’s not capitulating. His position is supported by the vast majority. It’s likely what he actually believes.
Please tell me what these “issues” are, with peer reviewed scientific sources. There are no significant advantages to a “male puberty” that are not countered by HRT. Furthermore, the same people touting trans kids for their supposed “advantages” are the same people forcing them to develop those “advantages” by restricting their access to healthcare before puberty begins.
The cruelty is the point.
Games are supposed to be fair. Unless you’re going to completely desegregate men and women’s sports, there’s a real biological argument to be made here. To pretend otherwise is delusional.
Yeah, we should totally focus on something so vanishingly rare and trivial it almost doesn’t exist instead of the myriad of real world, life and death problems.
That’s how you lose elections. You just say “x issue is not that important” and wonder why voters who think it’s important don’t vote for you
Yeah I’m not touching this with a ten foot pole. This is so low priority.
The way I view it is they claim to believe in a free market. I don’t know of any leagues off the top of my head that aren’t companies. If one company chooses to do it one way and it is actually bad for business, another company would replace them if it was actually an issue. But being that it isn’t that big of a deal, no rival companies have surfaced to replace them.
Well I assume when talking from a government perspective, the conversation is going to inevitably become about highschool sports and whatnot. Where I still definitely don’t want to touch this with a 10 foot pole!
The government runs schools that have teams, so it can control this
Iz-rah-el who’s iz-rah-el?
Member when the neoliberals tried to pretend this douche would be the next presidential pick?
The worst part about neoli erals is places solid blue like Cali get conservative leaders because they’ll take dirty money in primaries, then the only option is a Republican.
It depresses turnout till a Republican wins, and that usually comes with the state flipping in an election year because that’s when campaigning is highest.
It’s not just that they’re shitty people who won’t fix anything, they’re actively hurting dem turnout all over the country when it hits the news
We need higher standards across the board, not just in the oval.
Member when the neoliberals tried to pretend this douche would be the next presidential pick?
Yeah, that’s why he’s doing this. Throwing vulnerable minorities under the bus for no gain whatsoever is how you show democratic leadership that you’re on their side.
Removed by mod
It’s not that simple, you need to understand the effects that Hormone Replace Therapy has on the body. Men and trans women physically do not have the same type of body and the studies even shows trans women perform worse than cis women in most areas.
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Transgender women performed worse than cisgender women in tests measuring lower-body strength.
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Transgender women performed worse than cisgender women in tests measuring lung function.
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Transgender women had a higher percentage of fat mass, lower fat-free mass, and weaker handgrip strength compared to cisgender men.
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Transgender women’s bone density was found to be equivalent to that of cisgender women, which is linked to muscle strength.
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There were no meaningful differences found between the two groups’ hemoglobin profiles. Hemoglobin (Hb) plays a crucial role in athletic performance by facilitating improved oxygen delivery to muscles. Elite endurance athletes may exhibit up to a 40% higher level of Hb compared to untrained individuals. Moreover, heightened levels of Hb typically correlate with enhanced aerobic performance.
You’re allowed to feel however you like, but I need you to understand that it is only a feeling, not something backed by scientific observation of reality. Saying you don’t hate anyone is at odds with letting your gut feeling take the side of bias.
This is why it’s so crucial to never submit to a right wing framing on any issue. I have a goddamn trans brother, and I didn’t know about these specific facts at all. I hate the misinformation zeitgeist.
I hope I wasn’t coming off as someone who is upset with the existence of trans individuals. I have had trans friends. Who I housed at my home when they were kicked out of their homes. I have helped and been an ally before I knew what an ally was. I saw the mod deleted my comment. But I wasn’t trying to be mean or anything.
Well, no. Not exactly. I do think you are using “I have black friends so I can’t be racist” sort of logic to not be critical of your original comment. But I never thought you were coming from a place of malice or outright bigotry, just one of ignorance. There is a lot of propaganda around anti-trans legislation, so I truly can’t fault you for not understanding the nuance of endocrinology.
Yet having said that, the fact that you and your ex argued about this intensely enough that you split , that you describe her stance as “devout” and that yesterday you saw this thread as an opportunity to bring the story up. Well… it speaks to bias that apparently you still hold. I believe you were not trying to be mean, but when you talk about “the physical differences between men and women” as a way to argue for trans exclusion than you clearly do not understand the community or the issues we face, much less be an ally.
At a certain point, intent or former trans friends just doesn’t matter.
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I have 4 sisters. I just couldn’t see myself allowing them
Why do they need you to allow them?
He doesn’t. that was a figure of speech.
Yeah, I’m sure that it was the only reason and that you framed it as being “uncomfortable”.
Just so you’re aware. I do security for artists. Including trans artists. I would never remove an individuals identity for existing. I respect everyone’s right to exist. I just thought it wouldn’t be fair in a cage match. Because of the biological differences between our two body composition’s. Twitch muscle speed and all that jazz.
