I got a quest 2 a few years back, and it blew my mind. We ended up getting my wife her own so we could play together. Now, my daughter plays a lot of gorilla tag, but other than that, they collect dust.
For me, the biggest thing that prevents me from using it more, is the isolation. You need to find an empty space and remove yourself completely from the world.
On my phone or Xbox, I still know what’s going on around me, and I can hop in, play for a bit, and still know what’s going on in my house. I can walk away for a moment and get back to what I was doing. In VR, it feels like more of an investment. If I’m not sure that I have plenty of time to disengage from reality, I’m not going to bother putting on the headset.
Also, I’m a sweater, and a soggy, foggy headset is just eww.
This definitely, vr is a lot of fun, especially with friends (in the game or sharing a headset while we all sit in the same room). But it isn’t worth setting it all up (especially if it is pcvr) when I could just play one of the 100s of pancake games I have collected over the years.
This is why there hasn’t been a refresh on the Valve Index: not enough interest, not enough games. Half Life Alyx is still one of the few major games with any depth to them in the market, and you can’t access it easily outside of the Steam ecosystem. In other words, it’s unavailable for a lot of VR headsets. They aren’t going to dump more resources into more VR games if people aren’t buying the headsets or the games.
Steam Deck on the other hand? Huuuuuuge market, people want that shit.
True, but there are 2 sides to this: the majority won’t buy VR, unless there are enough games to play.
Studios should be actually investing and taking a risk, maybe it works out and becomes a big market, maybe not. If they keep going the current path, VR will forever remain an expensive niche gimmick. Which they seem to okay with.
I hate to say this, but I played through Half-Life: Alyx and my response was to the effect of “…That’s it?”
It performed badly, gameplay was largely based around very uncreative shooting (take out gun, shoot combine 10 times around corner, eject magazine, reach back, put magazine into gun, pull slide, shoot around corner 4 more times, repeat) and there were only 3 guns. Even the gravity gloves weren’t used in combat.
I was even more wowed by the few VR combat games that made some innovations or had features in the level to outsmart enemies.
Stand alone headsets can play PCVR games too, especially steam games, that is the most accessible market for PCVR on standalone. Most do it wirelessly, which likely isn’t as bad as you are thinking, but some also still do it with wired and some even with uncompressed video over wire. But honestly, as the resolution and bitrate keep going up, the difference between raw and compressed gets harder and harder to spot. At this point, you can only really tell in side by side comparisons of still frames which feed is compressed.
The main remaining problem of compressed streams is the total latency added, most importantly the decompressing time, since it’s done on the headsets mobile hardware. And the networking time. Though a dedicated network device, either a router or a bespoke VR streaming tool can get that down to 5ms or less now. My streams total latency to my wireless headset is about 30ms now. I wouldn’t be able to professionally compete in a frame counting fighter game… but that is about the only type of game where that level of latency is too much. Heck, people of my generation grew up through a point in time where TV screen latency was over 100ms… And while I will admit that there is still a benefit to sub 14ms latency, it’s not as big of a difference as it used to be. And that is only when I stream PCVR stuff, it’s still under that for stand alone content. Which also is not as bad as you likely think it is.
I have a total of about 250 VR games currently, and I only buy about 10% of the ones I want to buy. But I have also been in VR for 10 years now. About 150 of my games are standalone and about 100 PCVR. With about 30 of them being titles that gave both versions for the price of one. There is no shortage of games, I could not possibly play even all of just the good ones.
A VR headset is basically a console now, except one you can stream your PC to if you want. Even just for flat games too, I have a Virtual 4k 120hz monitor in my VR headset because in real life my 4k screen is an older TV that can only do 60 hz pc input or a very janky 120hz for 1080p. The nice thing about streaming to a VR headset instead of some hand held device, other than 4k 120fps, is that I don’t have to look at my hands or hold my hands up to my eyes to play. My neck feels so much better than it did when Phone, Switch, and Steamdeck were the best way to game away from a computer.
My headset is comfortable, I can, and unfortunately often do, wear it for 16 hours a day. I have a single third party mod for it that was less than 100 dollars to convert it from a 2 hour headset, to an infinity headset. There are multiple options, but I went with BoBoVR, dumb name, but quality product.
But my headset has basically replaced my computer monitor, I haven’t used my computer in person in like 2 years now. When I want to play a game on my computer, I just stay in my recliner, put my headset on and open Virtual Desktop, the same software I use to stream PCVR when I’m in the mood to be in the game instead.
There is basically no downside anymore, they aren’t even expensive. While a Quest 3 is notably better, the lower end 3s is a totally viable headset at 300USD, notably cheaper than most consoles. Just do yourself a favor, if a Quest 3 seems too expensive, do not try it on. Stay with 3s and don’t see how much greener the grass is for a little bit more, it’s very easy to talk your way up to a real Quest 3.
Also, Steam deck has sold about 5 million units extrapolating from last known good data, Quest 2 sold over 20 million, Quest 3 is seemingly up to 10-15 million so far judging from old sales data for pacing and some recently reported hardware ratios from game devs, and still has about 4-5 more years left of active sales.
So if the Steam deck is a “huge market”, then I don’t know what you would call the stand alone VR market now. Considering that is just one brand of standalone headset. It’s the market leader, sure, but there are other brands that do at least as well as the steam deck. Distant second as that may make them, seems like it’s still relevant to include given the context.
You have an extremely warped view of the popularity of VR, possibly because you like it so much yourself that you literally can’t imagine how other people feel about it. Wearing a VR headset 16 hours a day? Most people wouldn’t do that if it literally gave them orgasms.
I very much know how other people feel about it, we can be different and both our opinions can still be valid. I don’t think at any point in there I said that everyone is wearing their headset 16 hours a day.
But the matter remains that one headset has sold 4x as much as the steamdeck, and the second most sold is 2-3x as much as the steam deck… so why is the steam deck considered a good seller and VR is considered dying?
I was just making a pre-emptive counterpoint to the arguments people usually make against VR. That the headsets “aren’t comfortable”, which has been less and less true for the out of the box experience over time, and has never been true for people that are willing to tailor the experience to their individual headshape and preferences. I have always worn my headsets for 8+ hours even right from the dk2 days, first step: battery bank on the back, to get the weight counter balanced and for older headsets a different choice of facial interface was often a good idea. Eventually, once I tried a few options, I determined my personal best comfort came from “halo” style headstraps. So I have since just been buying BoBoVR’s kit for each headset I buy that is an all-in-one cenversion kit to take headsets from 2 hours of play time to infinity with no other adjustment needed.
I think honestly most people have only tried VR once or twice, and don’t even know what state it is in now. The Quest 3 crossed a threshold, now that you can use it as a 4k 120hz screen, it’s the first headset I would say is clear enough that normal people would find it worth using. I do still think the tech barrier is a bit too high. I’m very aware that if I didn’t show her how, my Mom would have had trouble figuring out on her own how to do virtual calls with my sister in New Zealand. But she very much appreciates being able to sit in the same room as her and have face to face conversations now. And even though desktop streaming is something built right into the headset, the default option isn’t the one that would sell people on it, Virtual Desktop is so much better. If in the future that becomes the default, and the desktop streaming client half of it is just baked into the headset software. Or if the default solution just learns from Virtual Desktop and at least looks as good as it even without all the extra bells and whistles… either one would be a huge help. The built-in desktop streamer just hasn’t been revisited since the screens are clear enough to actually see 4k, so it’s still unoptimised and kind of muddy looking.
But, my Mom did figure out on her own how to launch and play Tetris Effect, she loves it. Also Puzzling Places and Cubism. My mom is a bit of a gamer though. She doesn’t like anything with killing, but she has made some exceptions like for Stardew Valley. My Dad on the other hand still needs me to launch games for him from the phone app, hehe. He just “doesn’t want to break it”, to be fair he prefers the Quest pro, which is still a pretty expensive headset. So I can understand his hesitation, he’s used to windows 95… where you very much could break it by clicking the wrong thing. But he loves city building games, and there are a few good ones to choose from in VR. Cities:Skylines VR for “professional” city building ported to VR, and Little Cities for “fun” city building made for VR first are his favourites so far.
My brother only really got into it when I gave their family my old Quest 2, he still just plays the default “normal people” games like beatsaber and other exercise stuff. But he doesn’t have his VR legs yet, he does want to play adventure/rpg games with me, but they tend not to have comfort settings, as they would be kinda ruined with teleporting and stuff. I explained to him how to go about training for not needing the safety features any more, but he keeps taking it too far any time he tries, he likes the games so much that he doesn’t want to stop playing so soon when he first starts feeling the symptoms. But that is the most important part, otherwise you are working to make your VR sickness worse instead…
So yeah, there are definitely hurdles still. Maybe there should be supervised programs for getting your VR legs. You very much need to stop as soon as you notice the very first symptom for you, usually face flush, but can be different per person. The earlier you stop, the more you convince your brain it doesn’t need to “save you from the poison berries”. The bodies reaction to a vestibular mismatch is to assume you must have eaten poison, and it should save you by throwing up. But you can train it to leave you alone. Done well, you can gain as much as 5 more minutes of playtime each attempt. Doesn’t take long until you don’t even have to think about it any more.
I imagine the insane price to entry is a big thing.
I had some disposable cash so I went with the index, I love it don’t get me wrong but, 1k is super fucking steep for an enjoyable system, and that’s ontop of the requirement they do it right when they make a game, many of them take vr as a minority and you can tell when a game puts it on the side burner
Also a lot of people are lazy. VR requires you to move more than playing flat games. Also it requires a decent PC which is an added cost. As you said - when it works (Payday 2, Alyx) there is nothing better. When it doesn’t, you can end up with physical symptoms.
I’ve enjoyed my VR but rarely. When I game, I’m usually doing it to relax. Getting everything up and running, clearing space, etc so I can wear a device that makes my face sweat while I thrash about isn’t relaxing.
VR is the gaming equivalent of going to a fancy restaurant with a formal dress code. It’s nice once in a while, but most of the time I’d rather just make a sandwich and stay in.
Yup, $1k for a decent headset, $1k for a decent GPU, and you also need space to play. It’s a pretty big barrier to entry before you even get into the limited selection of games.
Even though Facebook is a terrible inhumane corporation, they have the best product because it is lightweight, can be used without any base station and can be used without a pc-link.
The fact that a VR set requires at minimum a 5x5 feets space with a computer within the vicinity is definitely hurting the VR market.
So I just hope that we get something akin to the Quest but without the evil corporation bit.
When I played Elite Dangerous with a VR headset, man was it magical. But I won’t dedicate a small room and a PC just for that experience.
You don’t need anything like that much for a Quest 2/3. Quest 2 is obviously a bit outdated, but I still have fun with mine.
I couldn’t use the quest, it seemed to be on par with the psvr in terms of frames which gave me massive motion sickness
Fair enough. Personally I find the motion sickness mostly down to the game rather than headset, I didn’t know that the frame rate had an effect!
I think it would take off if Facebook wasn’t involved
I personally don’t feel like spending 700 or how many euros to play beat saber on my ps5.
Other games that might be awesome in this is ones were you don’t need to move around but benefit from being able to look around, so flight sims, driving sims, but there the chair setups are better imo.
Can’t really think of much else, that’s why VR is on the decline, really limited number of fun games to be had, or it would require some paradigm shift, like a strategy game but you are playing on the inside of a globe, but then that game would have to survive on being a VR exclusive.
There’s just too many edge cases in VR for it to be a real platform. Movement is hard, there needs to be a lot of space around a person, form factors aren’t great for the hardware, there’s more graphical requirements, etc.
Let’s be honest, any manufacturers/developers willing to embrace porn will successful. Everyone else is just picking gnat shit out of pepper, hoping it’ll turn to gold.
just picking gnat shit out of pepper
Thank you for this wonderful phrase that I will be using from now on.
I sometimes use VR. I have a Quest 2. I just don’t really care for any of it outside of linking it up to my PC and playing custom tracks on Beat Saber or getting my wheel out for racing games.
One of the scariest experiences was getting Wreckfest (not sure if it supports VR now but it didn’t when I used it), stretching the 2D screen around me, jacking up the POV and having a heart attack when getting side swiped by a bus. That’s probably the most fun I’ve had with a VR Headset 😂
I’ve also played Civ V on VR just for shits and giggles because why not.
Anybody that says vr is a gimmick haven’t tried a vr racing rig. Not only the fun factor but I’m definitely a better driver now for it.
Flight in VR is truly something else. Not even a simpit can provide that level of immersion. You think jumping into a white dwarf system is spooky in Elite Dangerous? Try doing it with a headset on. When your cockpit is smoking, alarms are blaring, and the panic sets in, you will finally understand.
Yeah but I’d have to play elite dangerous
Fair lol. There are other games with good support but it’s the one I played the most in VR
I mean the hype has died down but I think it’s rather that VR is too expensive right now. I want VR but I don’t want it $500 much to get a novelty item.
I think using it as a big ass screen would be nice and I really want to Serious Sam and Subnautica on VR. The immersion is really good for VR and I’ve liked it a lot every time I’ve played it.
Still, you need a decent space in the living room. A good graphics card for the frame rate and the expensive headset and motion trackers to get the full experience. That’s a lot to ask for with the current economy.
You probably couldn’t pay me to use VR. The whole way of shutting yourself away from the world just to be stuck with a shitty UI that resembles RL interactions instead of the multitude of UI options abstraction can give you feels entirely unappealing.
You should try it when you get the chance, it’s absolutely bonkers. I had my reservations about it before I tried it and it was much better than I expected.
I mean I am absolutely open to try it at some demo event or something like that, just can’t see myself using it regularly because it is such a hassle to put on, take off, do anything else while you use it, limits so much what you can do while gaming both in an out of the game,… and I already very rarely use first person perspective in existing games that do have the option not to. I also like automation and streamlined UIs so the idea of doing every little shitty thing manually is utterly unappealing.
It’s an expensive gimmick.
Like 3D TVs.
Thought this too until I was gifted a headset, and found out I was dead wrong.
Btw they genuinely aren’t even that expensive anymore. Cheaper than a console, a phone is 3x the cost, and a gaming laptop 6x the cost.
I love the shit out of mine. Got the VrCover face pieces which keep sweat from being a problem. I mainly play heavily modded Skyrim VR and a few different exercise games. My son plays a ton of different games with his friends. I don’t think they are for everyone, but not a gimmick IMO.
Medical training in VR isn’t a gimmick. Your view of the uses is just too narrow.
Still seems fairly narrow, the field where you train for literal RL tasks but can’t train on actual RL objects because those are living beings is fairly narrow in itself. Not to mention that there is a fairly limited number of them where you actually have to use your hands on the patient directly considering the prevalence of keyhole type surgeries in recent years where the actual patient contact is not the surgeon’s hands anymore.
There is potential here, maybe, in the future. But nothing really happening now. Outside of Beat Sabre and a couple of other fun kinda cool but then boring ones, my VR experience got stale quickly.
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where are the vr holographs? i want a star trek holodeck in my house
holograph - A document written wholly in the handwriting of the person whose signature it bears.
I think you meant hologram. In which case, check it out: https://axiomholographics.com/devices/hologram-room/
Wildly overpriced, except for the options owned by the devil. For fuck’s sake, “even with this Apple’s hilariously expensive flop” underlines how hard companies refuse to get it. To reach a wider audience - charge less. Reduce cost. Simplify and add lightness. the only company even trying is god-damned Facebook, and they’re still fumbling it.
You need low-latency 6DOF. Everything else is negotiable. Everything.
And for god’s sake, have an intermediate format. Ship a VR gizmo that only renders ten million floating dots… and guarantees it can show them at 200 Hz, with up-to-the-millisecond tracking. Disconnect that performance from computing power. And latency. Let an absolute potato, on the other side of the world, be capable of producing the magical dreamscape you’re standing in, without making you throw up.
VR always seemed like a gimmick to me. I ended up with a wii instead of a PS3 or 360 as a teenager and it made me bitter and resolved to avoid anything like motion controls or gimmicks in future purchases.
Not that the wii was a bad console but I ended up playing the virtual console and gamecube backwards compatibility more than anything else.
