1. Why does everyone drive 10-15 miles above the speed limit?

  2. Why don’t we raise the speed limit if that’s how fast everyone wants to go?

  3. Why is traffic enforcement given to very expensive and ineffective police instead of cheaper and more automated traffic cameras?

  4. Why do we refuse to ever use ANY traffic calming measures? Yes, than you flashing digital sign for telling me I’m going 10 miles above the limit on this incredibly wide and straight and flat road with high curbs and perfect visibility.

It’s a serious confusion I have about how society is supposed to operate because it seems like a complete and total breakdown of logic and sense.

And, yes, I know there’s some thing people did long ago to set the speed limit at some percentile of what people were already traveling at, but that’s obviously a stupid way to do it and we did it anyway. So why?

  • cobysev@lemmy.world
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    14 hours ago
    1. Why does everyone drive 10-15 miles above the speed limit?

    Because speed limits are designed for the largest, clunkiest vehicles on the road (semi trucks, specifically). If they can’t handle the road at a certain speed, then the speed limit is dropped to a level that can be comfortably driven by them.

    This means that the average car can drive comfortably 10-15 MPH faster than the posted limit. And a lot of drivers feel that desire to drive faster.

    Also, I don’t know if it’s still a thing, but in my childhood (roughly the '90s), cops wouldn’t pull you over for speeding unless you were going at least 10 MPH over the limit. The reason being, the speed detector equipment they used had about a 10 MPH margin of error. If they pulled you over for driving 7 MPH over the limit, you could argue in court that their equipment was faulty and you were being unfairly assessed. You could sew seeds of doubt and get the traffic ticket stricken down. So cops just didn’t bother unless you could be positively identified, without a doubt, as speeding.

    I don’t know if the accuracy of their equipment has improved since then, but the mentality back in the day was that you had some leeway with how fast you were driving, leading to people driving faster than the limit in most places.

    1. Why don’t we raise the speed limit if that’s how fast everyone wants to go?

    Because it risks all vehicles - including semis, RVs, delivery trucks, etc. - driving too fast for their large, heavy, awkward bodies to handle. Then they become a hazard on the road. You ever see a semi tip over because it took a corner too fast? If you’re in a car next to it, you’re pretty much toast.

    It’s like queueing in line. Sure, it would be faster to crowd toward the front, but you’re pushing people out of the way; people who may have been there first and deserve a turn before you. And depending on how aggressively they’re crowded out, it may become hazardous for some people.

    In the interest of fairness, everyone queues and respects the line, so the system stays safe and orderly. Same with speed limits. Everyone is expected to stick to the limit so ALL traffic on roads are safe and orderly. But sometimes, people are people and will do whatever they want, even at the expense of their fellow human beings.

    1. Why is traffic enforcement given to very expensive and ineffective police instead of cheaper and more automated traffic cameras?

    This is a discussion that’s been going on for decades now. I know traffic cams are set up in some European countries and work pretty well, but here in America, historically, we’ve had a thing against being recorded publicly. Traffic cams haven’t taken off here because the idea of a small camera recording data about our cars without our knowledge freaks us out.

    Heck, we had to create entrapment laws to prevent cops from hiding while checking speed limits. If you watch old cop movies, they’ll sit behind billboards and catch speeders who fly by. That’s illegal in the US nowadays; cops have to be out in the open and visible if they’re going to watch traffic for speeding. It gives a fair chance for drivers to check their speed and adjust before the cop records them speeding and gives them a ticket.

    But most people will miss a camera in the wild. There’s no chance to argue a speeding incident in the moment. You get a ticket in the mail a few days later, then need to think back to that day and try to remember where you were and what speed you were going. You can fight it in court, but good luck having any evidence to counter a camera, unless you were recording the interior of your vehicle that day.

    With all that said, Flock cameras sprouted practically overnight here in the US and have set off distopian levels of surveillance paranoia. Especially since their setup was so fast that no laws or safety measures have been respected in their usage and the system is already being abused to watch and track people in unprofessional capacities. We kind of skipped the whole traffic cam issue and went straight to 1984 levels of public surveillance. So we’ll see how that plays out over the next few years.

    1. Why do we refuse to ever use ANY traffic calming measures?

    What kind of traffic calming measures do you have in mind? You mentioned the flashing speed limit signs, but that’s not going to stop some people. Speeders are gonna speed. It’s just human nature. The system we have is ineffective in a grand scale, but it works as a mental deterrent for most people. The fear of being pulled over by a cop for speeding keeps a lot of drivers in line.

    I once drove in the small African country of Djibouti, where the government had to post signs every mile to remind drivers which side of the road they should be driving on. Driving education was available, but most people just hopped in a car and took off; no license or training. There were accidents every couple miles. Trucks flipped over and abandoned on almost every sharp corner. Potholes so big you might lose a car in them.

    The system in America isn’t perfect, but it’s a whole lot better than it could be. You’re never going to stop people from speeding, even if we did set up cameras everywhere.

    My final thought on the whole matter is that speeding tickets should be based on a percentage of annual income. Say, 5% or so. Because a flat rate for speeding is just a punishment for poor people. Rich folks can afford to pay a fine with what amounts to pocket change for them, so there’s no incentive for them to correct the behavior. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe it was Steve Jobs who refused to get a driver’s license or plates for his car or something? Every time he got pulled over, he just paid the fine and continued on with what he was doing. Meanwhile, someone living paycheck to paycheck is going to have their life ruined by a fine. If you ask me, making fines a flat percentage rate is the first step to curbing bad driving practices. Punish people fairly across the board.

    • thebestaquaman@lemmy.world
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      12 hours ago

      Because speed limits are designed for the largest, clunkiest vehicles on the road (semi trucks, specifically). If they can’t handle the road at a certain speed, then the speed limit is dropped to a level that can be comfortably driven by them.

      Don’t you guys have any generic laws about driving “carefully and considerately”? It’s completely common in my country for the speed limit to be higher than what many vehicles can safely handle. That just means those drivers have to judge for themselves how fast they can safely drive while remaining “careful and considerate”.

      • cobysev@lemmy.world
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        6 hours ago

        Americans are too literal, irresponsible, and frankly narcissistic to follow something like that. We see a posted speed limit, that’s the speed we’re going to drive. Or we’ll go faster if we think we can handle it (and get away with it). We try to use the literal law to prove our position in court, so “careful and considerate” is too generic of a phrase to uphold legally.

        I lived in Germany for a couple years and I was surprised at how responsible drivers were there. Everyone stuck to the slow lane unless they wanted to drive super fast. The autobahns had no posted speed limit, but it was understood that if you got into an accident over 130 KPH, you were 100% responsible and insurance wouldn’t cover anything. So people just… drove more responsibly! Americans are too self-centered to behave that way.

        I especially liked how Germans would flash their brights if they were going much faster in the fast lane and everyone would just automatically pull over to the slow lane. No fuss, no drama. I do that in America and it just causes road rage. Americans don’t like brights being flashed at them. As a matter of fact, in my home state of Minnesota, it’s illegal to flash your brights at another car for any reason.