This always annoys me. I land on a site that’s in a language I don’t understand (say, Dutch), and I want to switch to something else. I open the language selector and… it’s all in Dutch too. So instead of Germany/Deutchland, Romania/România, Great Britain, etc, I get Duitsland and Roemenië and Groot-Brittannië…
How does that make any sense? If I don’t speak the language, how am I supposed to know what Roemenië even is? In some situations, it could be easier to figure it out, but in some, not so much. “German” in Polish is “Niemiecki”… :|
Wouldn’t it be way more user-friendly to show the names in their native language, like Deutsch, Română, English, Polski, etc?
Is there a reason this is still a thing, or is it just bad UX that nobody bothers to fix?
Yeah, that’s weird. They should be written in Klingonese.
because most web developers are morons :/
It’s more like “localization is hard and you have a week to add support for it”
Yes, this one. i18n was a three day training course at my last workplace, because things that seem really obvious if you’re an Arabic speaker browsing a Russian website, aren’t at all visible to the original developer who has their environment set to English, develops in English, puts all the frontend labels in a “messages” config file to be sent for translation by another department in another country, and will likely never even see the end result.
The translators often have zero context and don’t know what the UI even looks like or what the software does.
Valid comment to some degree, but putting language options in the selected language is always dumber than providing them in the only world language.
Nobody’s arguing that it’s the right way to do it, we’re just saying that breaking out words like “dumb” after the fact from the comfort of our keyboards, over problems that aren’t necessarily obvious at development time if you’ve not had i18n training, is kind of harsh.
The only thing I know about i18n is that it is an annoying shitload of language installer packages for both firefox and libreoffice ^^ That said, however, how you need training for a localization package to provide a language menu(!) - not the translations, mind you - in English, is beyond me. I can’t follow the point you seem to be trying to make. There’s no reason to not hardcode (in English) a language selection menu, and then display the list of available site languages (and these should be a country flag with the name of language next to it in what may be the language itself)
I can’t follow the point you seem to be trying to make.
The point is that it’s really easy to point at stuff after the fact like it’s obvious. Take for example your mention of flags; the World Wide Web Consortium recommends against their use, because countries aren’t languages, and so the use of flags to represent them is potentially contentious depending on what market you’re selling your product in and which flag you choose. Any screwup you make there would be really easy for some smartass to show up afterwards and say “well obviously you shouldn’t use a Taiwan flag to represent Traditional Chinese if you’re selling in China, dumbass, you shouldn’t need special training to know that… and while we’re at it, at least a few of the 8 million Ukrainians who speak Russian probably aren’t keen on identifying themselves in their profile with a Russian flag either”.
Again, and I feel like I’m repeating myself here, my point isn’t that you’re incorrect, it’s that getting on your high horse about it and calling people dumb is kind of a neckbeard move because every aspect of i18n has the potential to make anyone look dumb.
well obviously you shouldn’t use a Taiwan flag to represent Traditional Chinese if you’re selling in China, dumbass, you shouldn’t need special training to know that… […] at least a few of the 8 million Ukrainians who speak Russian probably aren’t keen on identifying themselves in their profile with a Russian flag either”
fair enough, that is a good point.
Again, and I feel like I’m repeating myself here, my point isn’t that you’re incorrect, it’s that getting on your high horse about it and calling people dumb
No, I wasn’t calling people dumb, I was calling “most web developers” morons, and I stand by that. Most web developers are morons. And the language topic at hand is just one of many symptoms of that. Way more annoying than that is that almost all websites have been fubared with stupid frameworks and interactive sites transmitting each keypress and reloading parts of the page while you are trying to use them / whatever was in your focus before. Interactive websites can be done right, but most of the time they are not, and it’s the fault of stupid marketing people and crappy web developers / designers who do NOT refuse to implement shitty marketing ideas.
If people really insist then at least have a flag emoji
Unicode consortium stopped accepting new flags. Far, far from all current languages are in there. Don’t expect there to be an emoji for every language, and fewer and fewer as the current version ages and flags change
And that’s regardless of that flags are often a poor language selector (south african flag can mean a lot of things), but if you insist then SVGs of what regions you want to support might be a good replacement
You don’t speak dutch? 🤮
/S
The reality is, it varies.
I just opened the language picker on the first site I had in my browser tabs (happened to be Epic games) and they display the language list using native names for the target language, rather than current language (screenshot attached)
I agree it’s much better to do it this way.
As a developer, why it doesn’t happen sometimes could just be by accident. If you intentionally set out to localise a site and put all text and menu elements into localisation files to be translated, then the language names are going to end up getting translated too. It takes conscious thought and UX design to realise that it’s better for accessibility if that single part of the site is actually just static text, regardless of what language is selected.
And before anyone suggests using country flags in your language picker as a cool solution - please don’t, because that sucks too. There isn’t a 1:1 relationship between countries and languages and so the flag approach is a flawed compromise at best, and actually insulting at worst.
this is a region switcher, rather than a language switcher (the website may of course be conflating the two, though)
You are right, it is a region switcher. I didn’t realize that, maybe because the “change region” button was in a language I didn’t know? :)
Be that as it may, I honestly don’t see what difference that would make in regards to OP’s point… While it is spmewhat rather ironic, their argument over choice of word(s) in this particular situation is - imo, anyway- not one of semantics, but more of localization.
Either way, whether this is a language selector or region switcher (or any variation on such a theme for that matter), I believe the point OP was - correctly, if you ask me - making is: Whenever a UX/UI element is needed to prompt for proper display language, each language should be displayed however it appears in its native tongue as opposed to how it appears in whatever language is currently selected.
As an added bonus, this also solves the problem of a user inadvertently changing the language (or forgetting to lock their workstation when leaving briefly and returning to find it changed to “help them remember to lock their station when not in active use” allegedly… not that that’s happened to anyone I know or anything) and being unable to change it back due to not knowing how to spell “English” in Japanese, for example.
The language selectors in the system I have built are either English or native. And I can tell you, implementing and verifying over 100 languages in their native writing is quite a challenge.
There’s plenty of examples of software doing this right and displaying each language in the selector in that language, it’s hard to say why they’ve localised it here. Most likely they just didn’t consider how the user interacts with that element and localised it the same way they translate everything else, but that could be down to anyone from the developer habitually running everything through localisation to company policy where they couldn’t get an exception for that element.
You’d have to ask support for whatever software you’re using for more detail, chances are you won’t get anything useful back but if you’re lucky they might fix it.
This is Fairphone’s website. I’m not that anal about it, doesn’t bother me too much, but I did see it on several websites, and I’m just confused…
Since Fairphone is Dutch it kinda makes sense they’d make this mistake. I suppose if you’d e-mail them about it they’d be open to making the change. They’re probably not even aware of it.
It gets more difficult if even the script is different. I once installed some Chinese app that would put the language picker in Mandarin and their symbols. I really didn’t know how to change it to anything I could understand so I’d go by all of them one by one until I found a language I understood.
Do I speak Ierland-ish? Mabey not, could be weird, but I got the one that must be Italian, and then I can pick English from there. Except I glossed over Groot-Brit… because Groot couldn’t be what I was looking for.
In an international context, not everybody speaks English. A Japanese customer wants to switch to French. Which language should the language picker be in?
Alternative is to put the flag of each language next to the name in the picker. That way, whoever doesn’t read the current language can at least pick by icon.
The label for the language picker is an issue, but the choices themselves? In the target language. You want French? You pick “Français”. You want Japanese? You pick “日本語”. You want english? You pick “English”.
Supposedly, if you’d rather have a website in a given language, you must have some level of understanding of that language, and picking its name should not be a challenge in any case. If you somehow change a site/app to a language you don’t know, as long as you can identify the language picker, you’ll be able to change to something you understand.
It does leave out the case of a user wanting to change to a language they do not understand, but I do not care for those.
The annoying thing is, you can’t put an image in the default select from browsers. So you have two choices :
- Make a custom select -> it’s complicated and will break on some machines.
- Use emoji flags -> windows do not have an image pack for flag emoji, and chrome didn’t bother implementing their own (Firefox did), so it displays the initials instead.
So whatever you do will not be universally supported, thank you Microsoft.
Have the language in the current language setting and the target language native tongue so you would get フランス語 / French “Alphabetic” sorting would be difficult, so it wouldn’t be perfect, but at least a lot more understandable. Still, just having a search option would fix that easily.
