About 49,500 people took their own lives last year in the U.S., the highest number ever, according to new government data posted Thursday.
You must log in or register to comment.
I will probably get shit for this, since it’s a predominantly left leaning space, but until society starts acknowledging men’s issues it will keep getting worse.
https://afsp.org/suicide-statistics
In 2021, men died by suicide 3.90x more than women.
In 2021, firearms accounted for 54.64% of all suicide deaths.
This article is an excellent example of what I am talking about. It does not even mention the disparity of suicide rates between the sexes despite it obviously being a huge outlier. Instead, they talk about how guns are the problem, even though a gun is just a method.
Taking away the easy methods to commit suicide might reduce the rate, but it does nothing to address to core issues that make people want to kill themselves in the first place. Instead of 5000 dead people you will have 5000 people who wish they were dead. Mission accomplished.
but until society starts acknowledging men’s issues it will keep getting worse.
Good news. We’ve moved on from ‘man hating’ on the left. Intersectional Feminism actually espouses the fact that men are also harmed by the patriarchy and all the ridiculous demands that it puts on us, like not feeling feelings. You should look into it.
Expecting women to help men is like expecting men to give women the right to vote suddenly on their own initiative.
If you’re essentializing the left you’re stuck in meaningless ideology. “Kill All Men” is a good T-shirt and let’s not pretend women shouldn’t look out for women. Intersectional Feminism might have good ad copy but expecting an ideology to cure all problems is a broken (and male-oriented) way of viewing the world.
“If we just get the ideology right the hard work will disappear!” No, men are still going to have to help other men and “Intersectional Feminism” is still going to be either 1) a way to a more nuanced feminism (a good thing for those feminists to develop, don’t get me wrong), or 2) an Extremely Online project of no real consequence.
Why do you think men aren’t participating in feminism? We’re men helping men over here.
We’re men helping men over here.
No, you’re posting online.
Do you personally volunteer at a battered women’s shelter? Then you’re a male ally.
Do you personally volunteer at a suicide hotline? Then you’re a man helping other men (when those men call in).
Otherwise I suspect, admitting that I don’t know you, that you think that you’re on a team that’s the good guys, and that you’re the only game in town, and you’re threatened that I don’t expect feminism to be something that it can’t and shouldn’t be, no matter how much ideological gymnastics are performed to try and convince men that feminism is on their side.
If you (or your ideology) profess a belief that you’re capable of being on everyone’s side you are grandiose and delusional. Help the people you can help, especially offline, but don’t be an ideological evangelist online because that isn’t meaningful participation in our society.
Yes we should try and make a society by everyone, for everyone. Intersectional feminism teaches us that the way to do this is to listen to the people with the experience, not the ideology which you, @surewhynotlem, are centering.
What I do is speak with troubled anti-women men online to help them understand it’s not us vs them, it’s all of us vs the system.
Don’t gatekeep assistance by setting an arbitrary bar. It’s unhelpful.
And what I do is speak with anti-women men online without trying to convert them to an ideology which is based around helping women.
Don’t gatekeep assistance by setting an arbitrary bar. It’s unhelpful.
fuck off? like do you understand how incoherent you are here? no, how could you, your entire ideology is based on the incoherent contradiction of feminism-for-women and feminism-for-everyone.
This is weak.
I think maybe less time on the internet and more time dealing with normies. I seriously doubt the women in my life would be happy to see me suffer even a bit let alone driven to end it because they read militant feminist manifestos.
On average people are average.
The struggle isn’t men vs women. It’s different mindsets. There are men, women, and other identities who view things in an us vs them bigoted way and then there are those who don’t look at what someone is, but how they treat others. The latter tend to be capable of getting along just fine together and use communication skills and emotional maturity to create solidarity with each other rather than pointing fingers at each other and creating absolutist rules and narratives. They show what is possible and are creating change and progress through being the solution of unity and solidarity by simply being cool with each other and not assuming anything about each other based on whatever identities they have.
you tell yourself a pretty story to make you feel better
deleted by creator
I will probably get shit for this, since it’s a predominantly left leaning space, but until society starts acknowledging men’s issues it will keep getting worse.
???
What left leaning circles have you been in? I think we all know men have issues too?
In my left leaning circles it’s pretty well understood that feminism is about helping women. And that’s a good thing. Trying to make feminism an ideology which serves all genders is problematic because it implies an omniscient perspective counter to proper intersectionality. Men experience oppression but only men can represent their oppression in discourse.
Women can’t and shouldn’t feel like they can have an opinion on men’s issues. “Stay in your lane” comes to mind.
How far do you take this perspective? As a lefty that doesn’t sound like a very leftist take, rather it sort of completely eschews the principles of solidarity and reason-based argumentation…
I do agree that feminism is about helping women (and that’s great!), but should mothers not advocate for better mental health resources for their sons? Should I not advocate for better access to birth control for the women in my life because I’m male or for Ukrainian liberty because I’m not Ukrainian? Denying someone access to public discourse about a topic because they’re not suffering the consequences of the topic seems a bit silly to me. And of course, men do actually suffer under patriarchy, albeit in a different way than women obviously.
I am taking some rhetorical leeway towards a more radical presentation of the perspective, for clarity.
Solidarity can only be achieved once people can recognize one another as equals, and “women tell men how men should advocate for themselves” is not equal recognition. Of course women don’t think they’re womansplaining the oppression men experience.
I don’t believe in reason-based argumentation. Reason is how consent is manufactured. I trust reason only within the confines of the emotional message a so-called rational actor is emitting within the performance of the ritual of discourse. Too many women have been told to shut up for being ‘unreasonable’ for me to take reasonability all that seriously.
Certainly mothers should perform their motherhood within this lens. Their motherhood is centered, not the primacy of their opinion. The mistake the essentialization&monopolization type feminists make is centering feminism, when an ideology is not a cure for anything except the nagging sensation that if we come up with and communicate the right ideas the problems will go away.
Regardless of your gender, you are coming across as quite unreasonable.
I’m not even sure the point you’re trying to make.
Then read it again. And don’t police tone.
Oh yeah no clue why you’re coming off as unreasonable.
To be clear here, when I say “reason” I mean the fundamental capability humans have to use logic, rationality, and data to make decisions and inform their behaviors. If this is the understanding you had when you wrote your comment I suppose we just disagree fundamentally, and that’d be an exceptional take on the matter.
We can be both emotionally and logically intelligent creatures, the two aren’t mutually exclusive and reducing people to their base emotional responses takes away from their agency. In my experience people are typically much more reason-based in their decision-making, even people who are victims of the term “unreasonable woman”. We don’t go around doing things just because.
I don’t think I shall commit to the insane proposition that humans use logic, rationality, and data to make decisions and inform their behaviors when climate change is currently killing the planet’s ecosystems off. To some extent I think you’ve got a high bar to clear for that proposition to be accepted!
Jokes or half-jokes aside, it’s not a new observation that people rationalize their politics after having decided what it is they feel. I’ve seen too much consensus reality with completely reasonable paragraph after paragraph to take reason all that seriously.
But I do believe that people are ‘reasonable’ in the way that you say: we don’t go around doing things just because (and to the extent that we do, it’s a good thing!). It’s when a group of people gather around a list of reasons that become an ideology that I start to get twitchy.
Feminism is a great movement but men who apply it as an ideology have missed something fundamental about the basis for reason in the expression of emotion.
I think you can help people and stand up for people being hurt regardless of what you got in your pants. Yes, education and personal experience may allow you to do a better job at it clearly a medical professsional can solve problems that I cant for example, but most of the time I think basic empathy can get you pretty far.
A homeless woman this week asked me for water, I gave her a bottle of water. I don’t think I need to be a women or ten courses of feminism to know that humans need water to survive.
I can’t think of a single left leaning space that is not concerned or empathetic about the mental health of men. I can think of several right leaning spaces that dismiss men’s mental health struggles with “stop being a snowflake and man up.”
It’s worth noting that also according to that article women attempt suicide 1.3x as often as men – but men are more likely to use guns so they end up dying more. It seems to me guns are a core part of the issue
The issue isn’t that people are committing suicide with firearms, or even that they’re committing suicide. The issue is that people are miserable and hate their lives.
Technology has us more isolated from each other and people have less friends now than they did 20 years ago.
It also does not even mention the disparity of suicide stats between different ethnic groups.
US demographics use “race” instead of ethnicity but the stats still point to a massive disparity with American Indian or Alaska Natives having suicide rates in the 20s (compared to overall rates of around 14 -14.9 per 100,000). Black and Hispanic people also have higher suicide rates.
deleted by creator
Well, since gun control in this country is basically verboten, one of the simplest ways to reduce suicide is a non-starter.
I know you mean well but you’re like the person who makes suicidal tendencies more powerful because you want to shut all the windows in a burning building because you personally find falling bodies less aesthetically pleasing than burning ones.
As someone who thinks that people should have the right to end their life, I still think guns might be an issue because they can make it very quick and allow no time to think it through. Even some of the other accessible methods take some preparation, and each step is a chance to think again.
I understood this perspective already. You’d rather process suicide into a pipeline in which “reasonable” suicide is more common than deal with the factors driving people to suicide.
Your need to control the “problem” is part of the overbearing control driving people to suicide. It’s my opinion that you’d be better off accepting the choice and not trying to second-guess men who shoot themselves, even if they’re drunk, impulsive, or any manner of “irrational” about it. (Rationality is a myth designed to sell more socially approved behaviors.)
One aspect you might have to separate is the gun control advocates who just want to cite another reason for X or Y policies. Those people aren’t necessarily advocating for mental health.
As an example take waiting periods. They might do something for first time buyers but the policy doesn’t really make sense for the people who already have a safe full of guns to pick from. I don’t hear those people talk about programs like “hold my guns” either.
I agree with you in the sense much left leaning conversation tends to tribalize to specific groups. Im super left leaning but I want things that benefit everyone. universal healthcare, universal education, publicization of anything that is to essential or without robust enough competition to be run by the market, citizens income. Gun control as a local issue (you can’t bring guns into my house, you can’t bring guns into my business, you can’t bring guns into our town, you can’t bring guns into our state) and federal (limitations on capability especially rate of fire, clip size, electronic assist). Legalization of suicide along with all other bodily autonomy. I find both sides like to look at things as this group or that group but I want general things myself.
I find it interesting how much western countries have individualised the causes of sadness.
It’s not that strange that people are often sick in a sick society. If you’re depressed, it’s likely that there are things that are causing or exacerbating that depression.
Give people homes, job security, less stressful jobs, and offer them a healthy work-life balance? Far easier to deal with and possibly even heal from trauma or serious health issues.
But that costs money. Selling people pills and self-help books? That makes money.
But that costs money.
It’s worth noting that a lot of solutions actually save money.
For example, universal healthcare is a big issue in the US. Around 2/3 of all bankruptcies are from medical debt. People ration lifesaving medication like insulin because of how prohibitively expensive it is. GoFundMe is of the largest healthcare providers in the country, and over 1/3 of all campaigns are for medical expenses.
They’ve created a system where it’s prohibitively expensive to seek necessary medical care, and is built on the foundational acceptance that people need to die and suffer for it to function as intended.
Yet a universal healthcare system is projected to cost the US an estimated ~13% less than they are paying.
Save taxpayers money, not the super rich. The system is working as intended for the parasites at the top.
Sort of. If they all worked together they would have been better off, even for their own class. Working together and further monopolizing businesses for American industries would have made them much richer (probably at the expense or other economies, but I guess we’re just talking about “the west” so thats slightly irrelevant). Every other American would be better off too, but that might mean Elon Musk is worth 100 B instead of 180B and Larry Ellison is only worth 70B. But there would be a lot more Billionaires and a heck of a lot more millionaires. But that isn’t how game theory works I guess, and that would be boring for them… they have no national allegiances anyway.
But that costs money. Selling people pills and self-help books? That makes money.
I am sorry but this is a ridiculous implication.
The vast majority of prescribed antidepressants (I’m assuming this is what you mean by pills) are old drugs with long expired patents, which makes them quite cheap. The profit margins have to be pretty low due to competition from generic formulation manufacturers. This is an area that actually could use more investment into R&D.
Self-help books are usually written by individual authors or small collaborations. It’s profitable but not massive industry. The people profiting from self-help books are not anywhere near to being able to influence people getting homes, job security and work-life balance in either direction.
Many cultures have issues with depression or suicide. Including ones with a focus on collectivism.
Work-life balance could be a part of the issue. That can be an issue for individualism or collectism. Although I feel like with individualism it’s easier to set your own standard.
The affordability of life is a problem as well but money being a thing won’t go away anytime soon.
Everytime I see suicide statistics like these. I don’t think of the deaths. I think of the misery each individual must have experienced in order to come to the conclusion that death was better.
Then I think about the nebulous political cloud surrounding these people and those who may have approached the conclusion but had the strength to carry on. I say nebulous because research is never going to encapsulate the reasons for one to kill oneself. If 50k in the US is the number who followed through, the numbers must be huge. I say this, because the suicide death statistic, is only the start of the problem - it’s a scale.
Misery festers at all of us. Labels, drugs and conversation can help, but it’s just burying the problem for it to resurface later. Until we start getting political movements towards human needs, this will continue.
I believe it. This place sucks. Criminals and assholes everywhere, at least in my life. People claw at you and fuck you over until your suicidal. I have no respect for America at all anymore. It feels like having to live with seeing your rapist everyday.
That and nobody cares. I sent out goodbye texts to a lot of people in my life. Literally no one cares. I’ve had people try to push me to suicide, stalk me, and give me death threats since 2020. Cops don’t care.
You’re right. But I care, if even for this breif moment. Take care, when you can. I hear you. ❤️
Ok first of all I get you, as someone from Europe, the greatest strengths of America often sound like the biggest weaknesses to me.
And then ofc if you wanna talk about it I’m here and I will listen :) hope you’re doing good.
American culture was deeply scarred by the cold war in ways that I don’t think many people realize. Over the last 80 years, the pursuit of self-interest has come to dominate every aspect of life and in turn degrades any attempt at community or helping one another. It’s quite sad actually. The America that gave my grandparents the opportunity to drag themselves out of poverty has turned around and eaten itself alive.
Literally can’t talk about because I get death threats because I made some bad people mad. And I know what they are capable of.
All my social media is watched by them.
Edit: I always get down votes for my real life experience posts. The world is fucked, you just shut out anything that goes against the privilege you were born into. Life is death war and chaos. You can either live for humanity or continue making rich criminals richer while you deny reality. I’ve seen people get other people murdered by cops on purpose. It’s real. This is America… There is zero hope.
I’m sorry maybe I’m a little triggered because this hits close to home, but seriously how the fuck can people claim “oh suicide is going up because guns”
Are they fucking blind to how things are going in the world? I’m so fucking livid right now. “Suicide is because guns” fuck off
Guns don’t make suicide more likely, they make them more successful.
Guns don’t cause suicide, but they make it much easier to successfully complete suicide
Handguns especially
But I doubt an increase in suicides this year from last year has anything to do with gun ownership rates
Some people are hell bent on taking any step possible to prevent suicide besides being there for their friends. The answer to the suicide problem shouldn’t be suicide nets. The problem isn’t the means it’s the motivation.
Hint to a friend that you might feel suicidal, now you have 10 fewer friends who “don’t want to deal with your shit”.
Suicide number decreased when we switched the type of gas ovens used. Use to be that you could stuff up your windows and doors, turn on the oven, and slowly drift to sleep into death. Now you will just be slightly warmer. Of course, that is a supply side solution. And just like the republican war on drugs, supply side solutions never get rid of the underlying problem.
Gee, no healthcare, no mental healthcare, no dental, no public transportation, Republicans trying to cut social Security every five seconds and our taxes go to. . .what exactly?
Trump last gave corporations and banks about 1 trillion in tax breaks and that “trickled down” in the form of piss on your face and a final result of corporations laying off workers anyway and not strengthening the economy.
Everything people need to live is getting more expensive, wages are stagnant if not falling with respect to inflation, and we are forced to work longer hours and have little hope for retirement. We are bombarded by stories of violence, drugs, and theft. Oh, and climate change is starting to destroy the livability of planet earth. There is zero surprise that people don’t want to keep living under these conditions.
My best friend was one of them.
Sorry mate.
I was almost one of them about a year ago. I was horribly depressed and constantly thought about ending it. It was to the point where I was even planning out the letters I would write and how exactly I would do it. Thankfully I never committed. I cut off pretty much everyone from my hometown and went to a different highschool where I found a caring friend group.
People need hope that they can have a future and that it’s one worth living. Without that, despair is a natural outcome. If our societies cared half as much about ordinary people as we do corporations and the military, there would be a lot less despair.
rising cost of living wages not rising with them scam of a healthcare system you will own nothing unless you slave away for the rest of your days
Color me surprised
The article only benchmarks the total number to percentage of Americans once then just talks about the total number increasing over time. It would be much more helpful to just see this as a relative percentage to total population as I’d expect that number to rise regardless as population continues to grow. Not disputing the data, but think that would be a better way to analyze it.
Yeah the 2022 figures in that article are meaningless.
According to a more well-written article: the 2022 suicide mortality rate was 14.9 per 100,000.
AKA 0.149% so that really is a jump.
Dang, I missed the train.
I think I’m going to do it soon, no point in continuing if I’m just going to be a joke for people to laugh at. Got my gun right here in the lower drawer of my desk, it’ll be quick and I don’t have anyone left either who’ll miss me. Daughter died in car accident 2 years ago, threw my wife out other day (I don’t miss her, she was nasty to me wanted to have another child to replace my late daughter) no one left to miss me or care about me. I’m also far out in the boonies so I bet I’d be a skeleton by the time I’m found by someone.
Removed by mod
What could possibly be more important than you? What could supercede your will to life?
Surely the only thing that existentially matters to you, is you. Right?
I do believe it’s your choice. But I also believe that the choice is wrong. There are countless numbers of other paths to try that could instill an essence in you.
Try moving to a city. Try moving to another country. Try learning an instrument. Try a new language. Try finding a new partner. Try a new sport. Try finding new friends. Try hiking. Try a different job, or no job. Try a new book. I could go on.
Try anything and everything that could prevent you from coming to a permanent end.
There’s growth, thus everything is fine! /s
