This pseudo-science bullshit does not belong on Lemmy.
I wouldn’t call it pseudoscience, and your link could be “debunked” by people with opposing views; it would be more helpful to discuss the issue at hand rather than respond as such
That’s the problem. You believe the nonsense. You can’t provide credible sources because the nonsense is not credible it is unworthy of discussion. There is no middle ground. It is garbage.
That is the biggest pile of bullshit nothingburger I’ve seen on lemmy. Utter trash article full of outright falsehoods, half truths, and horrible misunderstanding of things.
Like, they went in about the decrease in b vitamins in raw beef and pork after heating. Milk too, but you can drink milk raw safely. Of course the fucking b vitamins are decreased when heated. Good luck with your inevitable tapeworm, e-coli, and/or salmonella infections from that nice, healthy meat.
And that’s the least empty bit in the whole thing
Whomever wrote that is pandering to the type of person that only reads headlines and does no critical thinking. You’re 100% correct and it’s dangerous to promote that kind of easily debunked misinformation. This has no place on here and should be downvoted into oblivion.
Did you see OP’s response? They’re fucking insane and advocating for raw food diets including raw meat.
Just saw it now… 😩
trash article
it is posted for discussion, and I think it stands unless you have some specific issue with it
There are people who advocate for raw-only diets, microwaving aside (they also oppose other heating methods)
b vitamins are decreased when heated. Good luck with your inevitable
It’s not intended to be inevitable, as there are people who heat with other methods, and even people who consume raw meat (or fermented meat) without issues
I certainly disagree with the response here and the downvotes rather than a discussion of the issues but thank you for offering some counter-view argument
It is posted for discussion, and I think it stands unless you have some specific issue with it
They presented an issue with it, it is misleading. It does not indicate what other avenues of cooking do to food as a fair comparison.
There are people who advocate for raw-only diets, microwaving aside (they also oppose other heating methods)
I’m pretty sure none of those raw-only diets tell you to eat raw meat. If they do, that’s stupid. There are also people who advocate that the world is flat, does that mean that they are correct?
It’s not intended to be inevitable, as there are people who heat with other methods, and even people who consume raw meat (or fermented meat) without issues
These people put their health at risk by doing so. Again, there are people who do all sorts of things “without issues” until they develop issues. People drink urine “without issues.” Should we all be drinking piss? No, that’s stupid. It is a risk to one’s health to eat raw meat. That’s it. No debate with science about that.
I certainly disagree with the response here and the downvotes rather than a discussion of the issues but thank you for offering some counter-view argument
Not all view points merit deep discussion. Are you anti-vax too? I certainly disagree with your insanity proposing people eat raw meat. However, if you want to do that yourself, go ahead. I’ve learned sometimes people want to harm themselves and don’t listen to reason. It’s best to let them do that and hope they don’t spread their misinformation to harm others.
the world is flat
That’s another topic, although people have become skeptical about the shape of the earth after realizing certain photos of the earth were “composites” rather than actual pictures:
https://qz.com/192700/the-guy-who-created-iphones-earth-image-explains-why-he-needed-to-fake-it
These people put their health at risk by doing so
That is what is being argued by the OP article, that people in contrast put their health at risk by using microwaves
It is a risk to one’s health to eat raw meat
They’re saying it is a risk to one’s health to use a microwave to heat food, in contrast
Not all view points merit deep discussion
True, although it is unfortunate that some subjects which probably should have deeper discussion, don’t get the discussion needed
Are you anti-vax too
Vaccines have many problems; I’m open to vaccines possibly working, but sanitation may be more important (like quarantining and social distancing were used during lockdowns), they may be contaminated with toxic additives, they may be ineffective as recent flu vaccines have been, there are “free” alternatives that people might do like get Vitamin D by getting some sunshine that help prevent disease, there are financial incentives that may get in the way of recommending free alternative remedies, there is the placebo effect which may explain the “effectiveness” of some vaccines, and so on (to name some issues).
You must be a troll.
However, here’s a person who died this week due to an extreme raw food diet. You whackos usually can’t even take care of yourselves while doing this nonsense.
I mean they were a fruitarian (consumed fruit more exclusively), not really representative of all the raw foodists with more varied diets (I’m also not one myself)
I’ll save everyone a click to this bullshit pseudo-science website and put this archive link (from 2011!) here instead. And since I’m bored, I’ll give it quick fact check why not. I may very well also be wrong, so you’re all welcome to fact check the sources too!
What may have started as a nutritious plate of food has now evolved into “dead food” due to the dielectric heating of microwaves. “They bounce around the inside of your [microwave] oven and are absorbed by the food you put in it,” writes Dr. Joseph M. Mercola. The water molecules rotate rapidly in the microwave and in the food in high frequencies which creates molecular friction and heats up your food. This causes the molecular structure in your food to change, and as a result diminishes the nutrient content in the food.
Link just goes to Dr. Mercola’s homepage website, a pseudo-science website written by someone who is known for dubious scientific claims, not even an article. (Side note, I find it funny that mercola’s website URL has been excluded from Wayback Machine)
And are the water molecules bouncing or rotating? The article can’t seem to make up its mind about it. And what does it mean by “changing the molecular structure in your food”? Seems like an extremely sensational way to say “the nutrients broke down”, which by the way, tends to happen when you cook stuff, microwave or not. In fact, studies show that due to the shorter length of time microwaves need to heat up food, they tend to damage the nutrients the least. Boiling vegetables also robs them of some of their nutritional value because the nutrients leach out into the cooking water.Microwaves Destroy Breast Milk And Vitamin B-12
If you’re going to claim microwaving is bad, then at least also say if heating up via other methods would preserve the nutrients. The article and the study it links to does not say. Not dunking on the original study of course, but this is just a textbook way of spinning a study into something that they didn’t claim in the first place.
When you head foods that are wrapped in plastic in the microwave, you can create carcinogens in the food. Based on Russian research and German studies, the Russian government issued a warning […] says Foodbabe.
Yeah no shit. You’re eating melted plastic. Same happens if you put plastic on the stove and eat food from it. No links to the research and studies, link to the Russian gov warning is to Mercola, and foodbabe is also a pseudo-science website. And why would anyone claim a study but put a link to another website and not cite the original source is beyond me.
Microwaves Can Change the Makeup of Your Blood: In a Swiss clinical study, researchers found that… The eight participants in the study ate a series of food…
The link to the study is to huffpost, not an actual study paper, and the article has since been removed by them. Looking at the archived webpage, it was written by Mercola again. The claims in the article itself isn’t that different to this one, I’d say it’s even more entertaining, including terms like Radiolytic Compounds and Biophotons.
It did say that there were 8 participants, but it also said that it was a significant downside that there was ONLY 8 participants, including the researcher himself, and that his methodology did not stand up to the scientific rigors of the field.Microwaves can produce effects on your body instantly due to the 2.4 GHz radiation
Link to article is broken/taken down, even in internet archive. So let’s look up Dr. Magda Havas and her study instead. This article sums it up quite good. Her Ph.D is in botany, not medical nor EE. And an article also pointed flaws in her tests. She did do a follow up research, but I still seriously doubt the credibility of it. Providing statistics of people who are sensitive to EMI by just asking them, and then place a 2.4Ghz source straight on their chest to test their heart rate, doesn’t seem like a great way to test their claims.
Ok so based on your response and others, it seems like 1) raw is being compared to 2) non-microwave other cooking methods (say stove or oven) versus 3) microwaves, so three categories roughly of cooking (fair?). In the (2) non-microwave cooking category, concern has been raised about burning foods to a char (some raw food enthusiasts bring this point up I think):
(this article suggests microwaving instead of food getting burned, so take with a grain of salt): https://www.birmingham.ac.uk/research/perspective/does-burnt-food-give-you-cancer.aspx
back to this comment
“the nutrients broke down”, which by the way, tends to happen when you cook stuff, microwave or not
I think this is a good point to highlight. This is what some (1) raw food enthusiasts argue for, against cooking with or without microwaves. They argue cooking can reduce the nutrients in food, so people should consume raw foods instead. It seems this point may be admitted, however people often argue for cooking food for the trade off of killing off certain diseases. So the counter-argument in favor of the raw position would be to emphasize cleanliness for most people (and then only possibly cook for “at risk” people), i.e. mostly eat raw unless you are likely to get sick from raw food.
In fact, studies show that due to the shorter length of time microwaves need to heat up food, they tend to damage the nutrients the least
This would be true if all else was equal, but it was being argued here that microwaves may uniquely cause damage over other methods of cooking.
Boiling vegetables also robs them of some of their nutritional value because the nutrients leach out into the cooking water.
Right, I saw one site arguing that it was correct that microwaves removed nutrients (Vitamin C) from broccoli, but that this was similar to how the stovetop might affect it
eating melted plastic
I think this is a good point to take note of, that even assuming microwaves to be safe for the sake of argument, some people may wrongly microwave things thinking them to be “microwave safe”. So there may be dangers to microwaves beyond the act of microwaving itself, which I think would be good to note.
In a Swiss clinical study
I get that people are critiquing the studies, but it should be fair to at least consider it uncertain if microwaves are healthy or not; it sounds like people should avoid them when they can, but if they want to take the risk, that’s for them to decide, and there should be discussions on if it is healthy or not.
For example, plants given microwaved water did not fare well. This study seems easily reproducible, and I am open to it being explained if it is not thought to be relevant, but I’m curious about your thoughts on it: https://www.giftofcuriosity.com/plants-microwaved-water/
raw food
But we’re not discussing raw vs cooked food here, are we? The article in question and the “articles” they sourced claim microwaving food is an inferior method of cooking than other traditional methods. Though, human evolution tends to agree that cooking your food is simply better.
but it was being argued here that microwaves may uniquely cause damage over other methods of cooking.
So the proper scientific way of proving that would be to cook the same food on the stove or other methods and test their difference in nutrients, which the article does not do by the way. You can’t claim that the method does something different from the others without testing said methods too.
it should be fair to at least consider it uncertain if microwaves are healthy or not; it sounds like people should avoid them when they can, but if they want to take the risk, that’s for them to decide, and there should be discussions on if it is healthy or not.
If you’re not going to believe the other studies and articles saying the opposite, then it’s your freedom I guess. But consider this, I could change your quote into “It should be fair to at least consider it uncertain if cooking on a stove is healthy or not; it sounds like people should avoid them when they can, but if they want to take the risk, that’s for them to decide, and there should be discussions on if it is healthy or not”, but would it still make sense to you?
plants given microwaved water did not fare well
I don’t think that’s really relevant to the topic, as humans have multiple organs to fend off harmful substances while plants have none. As for the article itself I can’t comment on it too much, but a sample size of 2 is still too small, and ideally the experiment should be conducted in a way more controlled manner including a controlled environment, controlled source of water including not heated, heated, and microwaved, with maybe sources varying from tap water to diluted water. The problem could very well be the water source itself and not the microwave, or the plant itself was already dying regardless. And a quick Google search of “plants microwave water” gives me other articles debunking the myth, so that doesn’t really help.
The title is dumb and misleading, but I don’t doubt that the microwave process does degrade the quality of the food. But that depends on the food itself, the microwave isn’t killing you…
I don’t doubt that the microwave process does degrade the quality of the food
Same, food can be eaten raw or cooked in other ways, that’s all that is suggested…
You’re suggesting eating raw meat in this thread. That’s insane and dangerous to one’s health. You need help if you think eating raw meat is better for you. If you want to do a raw food diet, you better go vegan. You’ll also struggle to get proper nutrition. If you want to entirely ignore the importance of cooking to the advancement of humans, go ahead. That just makes you ignorant. You’re not wise, you’re ignoring science and foundational human advancements.
This just proves something to me. Humans seem to naturally evolve backwards after a certain point. Thousands of years to solve food safety issues and you want to ignore all the science because we actually solved a lot of food safety issues. It is the same perspective as anti-vaxers who think the vaccines are more harmful than the disease because they have not seen the disease. Get out of here with that nonsense.
You’re suggesting eating raw meat in this thread
Not that I am promoting that over microwaves (stovetop is fine), but there have been people who have lived on raw meat:
https://nypost.com/2022/04/27/ive-been-eating-raw-meat-for-166-days-and-wont-stop-until-i-die/
It is the same perspective as anti-vaxers who think the vaccines are more harmful than the disease
There have been people who have argued that sanitation has played a greater role in preventing the spread of disease rather than vaccination:
http://www.organiclifestylemagazine.com/how-plumbing-not-vaccines-eradicated-disease
There has also been concerned raised about toxic additives being in vaccines (not that vaccines themselves are necessarily harmful)
Regarding the current “covid vax”, there was a concern about a lack of knowledge of long term effects since the virus was thought to be new
This post was reported four times as pseudoscience and misinformation.
Currently this community doesn’t have any rules against posting pseudoscience and misinformation for discussion.
Also, it seems like the discussion here has focused on exactly why this is pseudoscience and misinformation, with lots of educational links about how microwave cooking actually works.
So this stays up for now. Be nice, folks.
This post was reported four times as pseudoscience and misinformation.
Maybe the community is telling you something?
Hey OP, if you’re feeling attacked maybe try to engage some critical thinking skills and the scientific method. There’s decades of established research and evidence that you can work on reproducing and proving it wrong. That’s the beauty of open information and the scientific method. I’m sure there’s an amazing opportunity for anyone who is able to show that decades of peer reviewed research is wrong.
Understood, however microwaves being healthy or not is independent of studies (implying studies could be wrong and have been at times)
OP is right, that’s why I cook everything in my anti-vax homeopathic oven. No 5G is getting in my lasagna 🤡
“the way nature intended”
mediabiasfactcheck.com/medical-daily/
Bias Rating: PSEUDOSCIENCE
Factual Reporting: MIXED
Country: USA
Press Freedom Rank: MOSTLY FREE
Media Type: Website
Traffic/Popularity: Medium Traffic
MBFC Credibility Rating: LOW CREDIBILITYThanks, I just checked another site posted here as a source of ‘facts’
Good Bot?
This is no argument against the claims made in the article or other articles
deleted by creator
Give it another day or two and OP is going to be posting stupid shit about UFOs, flat earth or MAGA nonsense.
UFOs
a prevailing view is that aliens are demons and “UFOs” are a kind of fakery to distract people
flat earth
many people have become skeptical about the shape of the earth due to proven fakes about space and unanswered questions about space-related topics, for example popular pictures of the earth were not “real” pictures but composites:
https://qz.com/192700/the-guy-who-created-iphones-earth-image-explains-why-he-needed-to-fake-it
we also don’t know what gravity is (just search “we don’t know what gravity is” for a bunch of articles)
MAGA
if only we could break the uniparty…
Shut the fuck up. No one wants to hear from you.
You know what is actually bad for your health?
Living.
Well, if people only live of typical microwave food, they do live unhealthy. I don’t think this would be news for anyone.
For anyone else who uses a microwave e.g. to heat a cup of milk, this is most likely a non-issue.
