cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/3320637
YouTube and Reddit are sued for allegedly enabling the racist mass shooting in Buffalo that left 10 dead::The complementary lawsuits claim that the massacre in 2022 was made possible by tech giants, a local gun shop, and the gunman’s parents.
I think the root of the problem is the Republican party. If you look at the language the shooter used in his manifesto, it’s very very similar. There are things social media platforms can do to mitigate extremism, but people like this will continue to feel emboldened by the GOP.
Everytown Law is about to get a lesson on how Section 230 works.
Pretty sure SCOTUS has a case they’re hearing currently that may very well change the scope of section 230 so I’d maybe reserve your quips until after that shakes out lol
The two big cases this year were already decided: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twitter,_Inc._v._Taamneh and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonzalez_v._Google_LLC
Although both dodged the S230 claims, both made it clear that Twitter and Google, respectively, had no liability.
Is there another case I missed?
My understanding was that it was sent back but not struck down saying that it just didn’t fall under anti-terrorism laws, but I guess I was mistaken!
Good. Civil court is where they’re most vulnerable, this is called tort law.
In criminal cases, the defendant is innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt by a jury of their peers. In a civil lawsuit, the defendant is only innocent until a judge, or jury, depending thinks they’re 51% likely to be guilty, what they call the preponderance of evidence.
In other words, “probably” is good enough when you sue someone. It is not good enough if the state is trying to throw you in prison. This makes it more efficient to process the 99% of civil court cases, which are usually just dumb shit, like which of these two arguing neighbors needs to pay for having a tree on their property line cut down or something. It also results in our civil system being a very effective weapon though, as a lot of wealthier and more powerful people know pretty well.
edit for italics
edit2: If anyone doubts me you can just google “tort” and read all about our American system on wikipedia, or any number of other places.
edit3: juries in civil too.
I don’t really know why you emphasized judge. Jury trials are very common in civil cases. This will be a pretrial dismissal or summary judgement without a jury, however. There’s nothing to discover or evidence to review that’s contested.
True, jury trials are common in civil. They’re just not the majority, and I’m trying to draw a simplified picture I suppose. It’ll edit it again.
They should sue Facebook too. Facebook is rife with Nazis. And they’re fine with it.
Considering the Facebook algorithm will introduce you to neo-nazis, that would actually make sense.
Facebook says this guy’s face is fine: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100086229708504&mibextid=ZbWKwL
Dude looks like he passed out way too early at a frat party hosted by the Klan.
He’s allowed to be racist, so yeah, it’s fine.
Being a racist piece of shit is not illegal.
Have the been any legal cases on these algorithms?
Good! They should. Facebook’s algorithm supports Nazis.
I’ll take you at your word.
If you look at anything even remotely related to “men’s interests” YouTube will begin showing you alt right fascist bull shit.
Seriously. I spend a little too much time watching a short that is clearly designed to get me worked up about stereotypical communication difficulties between men & women from a “women, am I rite?” perspective, suddenly I’m getting Jordan Peterson and Joe Rogan. I spend a little too much time watching a video about certain Ukrainian war equipment or a Slo Mo Guys video involving guns (wood stock hunting guns, I felt like it was the early 80s all over again before everyone decided they needed assault weapons), suddenly I’m getting served tacticool idiots with kitted-out murder machines. Or I watch a Bart Erhman video (secular New Testament scholar with a large lay audience) and suddenly I get served muslim da’wah/apologetics videos and Catholic catechism ads.
If you look at anything even remotely related to “men’s interests” YouTube will begin showing you alt right fascist bull shit.
Or if you don’t. Youtube shorts recommends Rogan constantly.
Feels good to be reading this somewhere other than reddit
I mean lookingbat the details for the basis of the suit. They think they can sue someone for teaching a criminal how to do something. They think they can sue the makers of body armor for selling a guy who was not a criminal at the time of purchase, an unregulated commercial product. They think they can sue YouTube for providing motive for whatever he did.
In the law world theres a word for this. Its called a shakedown. This is grieving family’s who are vindictive. They dont care who pays, but somebody has to pay in their eyes. Sadly on the merits this case will die in court pretty fast and nobody is gonna see a dollar unless alphabet and spez’s lawyers decide they are feeling charitable. Which they won’t because settling would cause implications of guilt in the public eye.
Former Australian Deputy Premier won a case against Google in 2022 arguing that the YouTube platform enabled journalist FriendlyJordies to make fun of him, and he won a $715,000 settlement.
Edit: Thanks for the correction, guys
Also, not a former Australian prime minister. He was the deputy premier of New South Wales.
I’m still learning Australian political terminology, you are right, I had prime minister and deputy premier confused.
FYI, the premier is like the state governor and the prime minister is like the president.
YouTube may end up being protected by Safe Harbor laws:
715 thousand. Not millions
Changed it. What’s a zero here or a zero there between politicians though…
True
nailed it
sadly… this case will die in court
Only part I disagree with. It’s a very good thing that this case dies in court. It really does suck for the families, sure, but if these kinds of lawsuits worked it would cause a whole lot more problems than it solves.
How is this a “shakedown”?
Reddit enables more than just racist, it’s a nasty cesspool the like of 4chan, riddled with bots, the CEO himself is a POS.
… I mean you’re preaching to the choir.
Agreed. Spez’s support of The_Donald was the beginning of the end (although as he was a mod of jailbait before it was banned, it was clear that Trump wasn’t the genesis of Spez’s sickness), and now there’s nothing left of the communities that made it great. There’s hasn’t been anything rewarding about contributing there since about 2014.
Removed by mod
I feel like our problem isn’t that social media companies are not liable but that they are too big, like imagine this happening on mastodon. Generally I feel like mastodon would not allow this unless the instance was specificlly facist like the KF instance
I dont think the Fediverse is a good example of not allowing certain activities.
Much as I dislike Reddit, I dont think they are to blame here
Reddit worked very hard to protect all anti-nazi imagery and stop people from posting anti-nazi sentiment. I’d like for someone to acknowledge that they silence anyone who posts anti-nazi shit and who speaks about killing Nazis.
Many are here because of that.
They kept the_donald around for years after they helped organize a nazi rally.
It could be the killing part not the nazi part that they silenced you.
Reddit has edited content, that IMO opens them up this. Once they start removing legal but undesirable content they are tacitly approving the content they haven’t removed.
It’s weird that this is a link to the exact same 25 day old post on the same community.
I am all for this
Everyone was responsible except the shooter. Welcome to Lawyer World.
Liability is nuanced, ya doughnut.
It’s almost like the world exists outside of a third grade understanding man woman toaster TV.
And there is no liability here, ya bagel
There is tho.
Shootings do not happen in a vacuum. They happen due to external factors such as political or religious radicalization or “just” bullying. This does not absolve the shooter of the responsibility of course since the response to, let’s say, the Great Replacement Theory lies in the hands of the shooter. The shooter could have not shot non-white people.
But then we have the people spreading the Great Replacement Theory. The people that tell their audience day in and day out that if they are not careful, there may be no whites anymore. If you keep hearing this or other racist shit day in and day out for many many many years and do not trust another source of information because the same people tell you that the other media is corrupt… You’re bound to turn “crazy” one way or another.
There’s probably even more nuance but my point is: We really shouldn’t let the people turning responsible gun owners into shooters through propaganda just get away with it, should we?
Especially in the right wing where this is a known tactic. They radicalize people and if something goes awry, they just disavow it. The right wing pundits disavowed the Jan 6 rioters they themselves “inspired” to fight for democracy. They disavowed the Club Q shooter they themselves “warned” about trans people.
Sure the parents who are truly to blame for not raising their child properly
Our only hope for sensible gun rights is that accountability needs to be beyond just the person who pulled the trigger.
