One dead baby, a tragedy.
Two dead babies, a concern.
Fourteen dead babies, I don’t care about her. She’s fucked. But what fucking hospital has 14 dead babies? Are you saying you cant identify a pattern after 4 or 5?
The heads of the hospital should be gutted.
Call that place “The dead baby hospital” because wtf.
It’s weird to me the level of deranged guilt her diary entries show.
We are responsible for our actions. I just wonder wtf was going on in her head that allowed her to keep doing it. She hated herself for it. Like a lot.
This is a mental health issue, do they have free mental health care in the uk?
Yes, but it’s difficult to access. You need to want to get the care and actively campaign to be referred.
And that’s the “easy” things like anxiety or garden variety depression.
As soon as it gets complicated it’s a whole other story.
If she never tried to seek it out, then it doesn’t even matter as it appears she didn’t give off any “I murder babies” vibes to the extent that the investigation was delayed beyond a reasonable length of time because she was not suspected of such a thing.
Not to mention, if she was diagnosed with something severe, she would probably lose her job if not her entire career. A lot of people avoid seeking help for that reason.
Well, it turns out that you will also lose your job if you are caught murdering babies.
Ok, but she shouldn’t have had her job.
Easy to say from where we sit. Harder when that job is what’s keeping a roof over your head and food on your table.
Right, but she was compulsively murdering babies in the hospital. Can we all agree that she shouldn’t have had a job as a nurse in a NICU? That doesn’t feel like a statement with room for debate.
So a baby murderer should have been allowed to keep her job and continue to put innocent lives in danger because you 1) baselessly think she’s mentally ill, and 2) think that a condition as extreme as you’re implying shouldn’t be regarded with consequence.
I never said that she should be allowed to keep her job.
So weird that private medical info is only like sorta private except if they wanna use it
I mean, on the one hand I agree.
On the other hand, if you dream of murdering babies or crashing planes, perhaps the hospital or airline you work for should be informed.
Real talk though, you can’t punish thought crimes.
Who TF dreams of crashing planes that does not fly planes? The incidence of plane-crash-dreamers is most certainly highly concentrated amongst pilots.
As are those who dream of killing babies concentrated around those who spend time around them.
Most of us use our brains to filter out things that we don’t want to come to actualization. But the bad thoughts are in there. 94% of us will experience intrusive thoughts at some point in our lives. All to jail?
Or like get it solved before it becomes a problem? And have a professional medical opinion reccomend if you should work somewhere to not based on a risk assessment, not just a blanket statement
And that attitude is why they don’t seek help
Ok, but the alternative is knowing a nurse directly in charge of infants wants to murder them and still letting her go into work. You’re basically an accomplice at that point.
Not the right time. Not the right place.
This woman murdered a lot of babies. Your comment is wildly inappropriate.
It’s so hard, because those families have it so amazingly awful but I can’t imagine her being a sane person and doing what she did. She shouldn’t be on the street and she needed help a long time ago.
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Nah, not self defense.
That would not be murder, then. Murder requires premeditation.
Premeditation is only required for first-degree murder.
All murder is homicide, but not all homicide is murder.
There’s a big fucking difference between “i hate myself and want to die” and “might murder a half dozen babies this month”.
I think you might be asking a bit much of public mental health care, yeah?
It’s interesting to me just how rare the underlying mental disorder has to be. Millions of people have mental health issues too but aren’t committing unspeakably vile acts. The incidence rate has to be 1 in several hundred million births.
My other thought is that mental health played a role but isn’t the underlying cause, since mental health problems generally don’t drive people to do this. That said, with the complexities of genetics and epigenetics, it’s perfectly possible it could happen.
That’s because the mental health excuse is just that: an excuse. They don’t actually have the evidence to back up the notion that she’s mentally ill other than her diary entries. Those entries could have been forged for all they know.
They not only undermine the very real damage that woman caused by using mental health as a cynical attempt to try to give her an out, they also are being extremely ableist. Committing egregious crimes != mental illness and for them to draw that equivalency caters to the stereotype that mentally ill people are dangerous.
These are people who know that and who would call others out for being ableist, yet do so freely in threads like this without consequence or a second’s thought from anyone else. Ask yourself why that is.
Aye. Not to mention, there’s a very distinct possibility that the diary entries are true, but are a result of the evil acts. I think it’s possible for someone to fall into depression and suicidal ideation after commiting truly heinous acts. We don’t have any indication what the causation is here.
It’s foolish to think that everyone who does evil just twirls a mustache and thrives on it. I’m guessing that most people who do something like this end up with mental illness or more severe mental illness as a result. It’s far more likely to me that these people are tortured and guilt ridden, evil souls than unrepentantly evil.
Anyhow – The first time I really had my eyes opened to how offensive this sort of language is was actually from David Harbour. As someone with mental illness, it really resonated when he pointed out that labeling mass shooters as simply mentally ill was a disservice to the millions of people who struggle with depression and anxiety and etc and it was incredibly stigmatizing. I’ve tried to be cognizant of that ever since, and the language around this story set off alarm bells for me.
It’s clear everybody labeling her as mentally ill are doing it with an ulterior motive in mind. They’re almost as bad as she is.
Have you ever read The Banality of Evil by Hannah Arendt?
I have not, but I’ve heard about it. I remember discussing it in world history class, just the concept.
No, not really. Both are psychiatric issues that need to be adressed.
She might think she didn’t have a problem and rationalized her actions
I read the article and didn’t see any diary stuff. Do you have a link to it?
“I am evil I did this”.
The note added: “I don’t deserve to live. I killed them on purpose because I’m not good enough to care for them.
“I am a horrible person.
“I hate myself. There are no words. I am an awful person. I pay every day for that.”
“I panic I’ll never have children. I don’t deserve mum and dad. The world is better off without me. I did this, why me.”
“No one will ever know what happened and why . . . I’m a failure.”
“I am a problem to those who do know me . . . it would be much better for everyone if I just went away. I just want to be happy.”
“Kill me” and “Help me” along with the names of some the babies she murdered.
In one, Letby scrawled: “I can’t do this anymore. I can’t live like this.
“No one will ever understand or appreciate what’s like.”
You’d have to look at what she got out of it emotionally. Other hospital killers did it for a combination of “They were a burden”, “I was putting them out of their misery” and a sense of godlike power of life and death. Some started doing it for seeming mercy reasons but got so comfortable with doing it that they started killing patients because they annoyed them.
I think you’re perhaps ignoring what I said about the content of her entries.
She suffered from her actions, emotionally. A lot. It’s quite clear she got nothing positive emotionally from it:
"I am evil I did this”.
The note added: “I don’t deserve to live. I killed them on purpose because I’m not good enough to care for them.
“I am a horrible person.
“I hate myself. There are no words. I am an awful person. I pay every day for that.”
“I panic I’ll never have children. I don’t deserve mum and dad. The world is better off without me. I did this, why me.”
“No one will ever know what happened and why . . . I’m a failure.”
“I am a problem to those who do know me . . . it would be much better for everyone if I just went away. I just want to be happy.”
“Kill me” and “Help me” along with the names of some the babies she murdered.
In one, Letby scrawled: “I can’t do this anymore. I can’t live like this.
“No one will ever understand or appreciate what’s like.”
She got something out of it though. No one was forcing her to do it so regardless of her entries at the moment of choice she wanted to do it. She may have felt regret or self-hate after the fact but it is clear that those feelings eventually passed.
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Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good. Good.
Ah. I see what you did there.
There’s a lot of hate here that I can empathise with and I’m trying to not take calls for her to commit suicide or be murdered/ tortured in prison literally. It’s difficult to express hate verbally without reference to physical violence that underscores it. There’s sentiment here that life in prison isn’t enough and I tend to agree, but not in a way I’ve seen talked about here or anywhere else.
Letby should be imprisoned for life, no question. But that shouldn’t stop us asking more questions about what happened here. Do we treat Letby’s murders as isolated, unique cases and expect them to never be repeated? Lock her away and continue business as usual? It’s possible that things aren’t so simple and we need to look into how somebody like Letby got away with so much for so long and maybe also why she began doing something quite so horrific.
Mental illness is an unfortunate reality to come to grips with because we are steadily recognising that it is caused by relationships an affected person has with their environment. That means there is a share of responsibility in all of us and the systems/ institutions we have built to make sure this does not happen again and that we identify it before it’s too late.
It’s entirely likely that Letby will turn to self harm, or other extreme outcomes of poor mental health. We can’t ask anyone to sympathise with her after what she has done, but we can hope to treat mental illness better in the future and offer help to those who need it, before it’s too late. And I don’t mean too late in the sense of killing people, because that’s not what all mentally ill people do.
I appreciate the leveled comment. It’s difficult to separate one’s more reactive side of anger with the reasonable side. There’s a reason the family of victims of crimes can’t be jurors. I, too, would not be able to hold it together if I was in the position of those impacted by this person. Still, like you said it’s vital we look at it from a position of a civilized society. The lens of Justice should not be focused on vengeance or punishment — both proven ineffective in terms of recidivism. Rather, the true pillars of justice involve: Separation from society, and rehabilitation (when possible). Arguably deterrence, but that is questionable.
Someone like this should not just be sentenced to life imprisonment (as a precaution to civilized society), but also subject to scientific study from both life and after death in autopsy. Every. Single. Part of her makeup should be dissected from checking for tumors (Tower shooter), analyzing her brain chemistry, relentlessly studying her past and psychoanalyzing her.
Ok I know this bitch should die but this judge should do at least three months in a level two for this fit.
He looks like he steals candy from 18th century children.
Baby serial killer? Oh….she’ll die in prison all right.
After everything she has done, why did they choose a picture where it looks like she signed with a team?
She’s the white color
I hear prison is really fun for child murderers.
Before reading, I initially thought that maybe there was a reason like she could have mental health issues or that she could be just someone extremely incompetent at her job… But the more you read, the more this makes me want to vomit… It’s truly sickening!
She’s essentially a serial killer so I was looking into her past. Her parents were extremely over bearing, clingy and guilt trippers who were always smothering her, so I’m sure that contributed, but there’s gotta be more in her past that led her to this.
My parents are overbearing, clingy,and guilt trippers; I haven’t committed any murders yet.
Exactly. They still can’t point to a person and say “This person will kill and this one won’t”. It seems to require a confluence of a number of things. A violent childhood, a socially stunted development, opportunity, a lack of empathy and a psychopathic mentality, an ability to compartmentalize (good family man at home, violent psycho outside of it). Even then it still isn’t a guarantee.
They do it because they choose to. Regardless of all other circumstances, the choice is always theirs.
But that’s not helpful, it might be true in some sense but then it is for everything - would you rather wallow in hate or try to understand and prevent similar things happening in the future?
“yet”
Yeah, I was looking for a reason and found none. She is just sadistic.
Yes she will. Probably before the year is out.
Bitch is going to commit suicide in jail and that’s way too good for her. She should live with it every day and be beaten daily. Even that’s too good for her. Makes my blood boil
I’m trying to understand the downvotes you have. Like yeah, what you’re saying is extreme. But murdering goddamn infants is pretty fucking extreme. If there was ever a time to wish someone pain, it would be now.
Some people aren’t mental and don’t wish to inflict pointless harm on others.
If its wrong to harm people, its wrong to harm those who harm people too.
That’s like saying we should be tolerant of republican’s fascism. Some things shouldn’t be allowed even if you sorta need to act like them towards them to get it to stop.
No its nothing like that. Shes been given 14 life sentences, how is that tolerating anything??
Isn’t exactly pointless when someone’s committed a crime against humanity – and murdering those newborns is absolutely a crime against humanity.
Absolutely, people can down vote to oblivion but I stand by what I said. Days old babies, I cannot comprehend this. It’s that reason I may sound a smidge extreme, for a very laid back easy going person this has awoken a great anger in me.
And it should, but that anger should be directed not to further hurt this sick animal, but towards all the checks and balances that should have caught this earlier - administration that refused to look into it after her colleagues raised concerns, the implicit trust we put into people in these careers, and the lack of screening that lets people like this into these jobs in the first place.
I don’t think she’ll get the chance to do that considering what I’ve heard about what inmates do to murderers
Reddit would suspend your account for this comment even though it is perfectly reasonable. But I also think why waste time and money on this trash and just throw her into a furnace or something.
Perfectly reasonable
Well you’re living up to your username at least.
I’m not particularly “vindictive” but these are the kinds of cases where capital punishment / death penalty seem justified
In this case it would almost be letting her off the hook, rotting in prison seems a better punishment.
I mean. . . not immediately, right?
Whats it matter? We will all die in a prison of our own making.
Shame they don’t hang any more. Maybe she’ll do it herself.
Better that she wastes away in prison knowing she will never be released.
I hope she spends the rest of her life being tortured by mentality I’ll DOJ guards.
