Those of you who have served in the military and swore an oath to protect us from domestic enemies, please seriously consider honoring your oath before the rest of us have to do it for you.
Wow, nothing like a shove forward as you step back right? I got news for you buddy, this isn’t the kind of thing just a few people can fix. The country actually elected him. We need to build a movement to fight this, to prevent the country from just electing the next one.
Not at all, it was a compromise between counting slaves as ‘population’ and not people, so the south wasn’t totally devoid of population numbers big enough to matter. Considering Jefferson and Washington were proud southern slave owners and set the standards for the country legally and traditionally, it’s hardly a surprise this is still being done when the whole point was treating people like cattle and also giving their humanity to their masters as political power.
I would never ask someone else to risk their lives for me. I think we all need to figure out where our red line is - for me it would be a successful attempt to keep serving in a third term, or actually successfully deporting/imprisoning US citizens without due process. Merely trying or talking about it isn’t enough because if the constitutional process stops him, that means it’s still working.
non American here. the red line was January 6th.
Don’t wait to see if more boxes are checked, every autocracy in history relied on people planning to resist when things ‘really’ got worse. By then it’s always too late. They’re planning accordingly.
Trump has learned that people will allow him to keep crossing over their “red line” and will draw an new red line. He’s been doing it for years. Now Americans are saying he can throw out the Constitution, so long as they aren’t yet personally impacted, but they will react at some future point when he gets even worse, maybe.
Why doesn’t the successful deportation of Kilmar Abrego Garcia without due process rise to this level for you? It’s true he wasn’t a US citizen, but he did have a protected status that let him live and work legally in the US. And given that he was deported without due process, but simply by “administrative error,” there was no point at which he was given the opportunity to bring up his legal status. That is, the thing that would be different if they tried to do this to a citizen is that they would have successfully done it to a citizen. Presumably the courts would order them to bring the citizen back, but they’ve already done that with Abrego Garcia, and the administration isn’t complying.
If that’s your bright line, maybe check out the boot that’s straddling it.
If a Democrat wins in 2028, we can hypothetically fix immigration policy, tariffs, and all the rest with enough popular support. In fact now that the far right has shown themselves to be a clown show, maybe that phase of America’s maturation may finally be ending. We might even bring Abrego Garcia himself back.
But if we deport citizens - who can vote and participate in democracy - that puts the thumb on the scale. It makes permanent fascism like in Russia more likely. And it’s worth dying to avoid that permanent fate. But if it’s temporary, it just doesn’t rise to that level.
This is exactly why the 2nd amendment exists.
Those of you who have served in the military and swore an oath to protect us from domestic enemies, please seriously consider honoring your oath before the rest of us have to do it for you.
Wow, nothing like a shove forward as you step back right? I got news for you buddy, this isn’t the kind of thing just a few people can fix. The country actually elected him. We need to build a movement to fight this, to prevent the country from just electing the next one.
I bet when “ice” agents start meeting resistance in the form of 9mm and .45 it will make some changes.
Wasn’t the Electoral College also supposed to serve that purpose?
Not at all, it was a compromise between counting slaves as ‘population’ and not people, so the south wasn’t totally devoid of population numbers big enough to matter. Considering Jefferson and Washington were proud southern slave owners and set the standards for the country legally and traditionally, it’s hardly a surprise this is still being done when the whole point was treating people like cattle and also giving their humanity to their masters as political power.
I would never ask someone else to risk their lives for me. I think we all need to figure out where our red line is - for me it would be a successful attempt to keep serving in a third term, or actually successfully deporting/imprisoning US citizens without due process. Merely trying or talking about it isn’t enough because if the constitutional process stops him, that means it’s still working.
non American here. the red line was January 6th. Don’t wait to see if more boxes are checked, every autocracy in history relied on people planning to resist when things ‘really’ got worse. By then it’s always too late. They’re planning accordingly.
Trump has learned that people will allow him to keep crossing over their “red line” and will draw an new red line. He’s been doing it for years. Now Americans are saying he can throw out the Constitution, so long as they aren’t yet personally impacted, but they will react at some future point when he gets even worse, maybe.
Why doesn’t the successful deportation of Kilmar Abrego Garcia without due process rise to this level for you? It’s true he wasn’t a US citizen, but he did have a protected status that let him live and work legally in the US. And given that he was deported without due process, but simply by “administrative error,” there was no point at which he was given the opportunity to bring up his legal status. That is, the thing that would be different if they tried to do this to a citizen is that they would have successfully done it to a citizen. Presumably the courts would order them to bring the citizen back, but they’ve already done that with Abrego Garcia, and the administration isn’t complying.
If that’s your bright line, maybe check out the boot that’s straddling it.
My main criteria is can we fix it.
If a Democrat wins in 2028, we can hypothetically fix immigration policy, tariffs, and all the rest with enough popular support. In fact now that the far right has shown themselves to be a clown show, maybe that phase of America’s maturation may finally be ending. We might even bring Abrego Garcia himself back.
But if we deport citizens - who can vote and participate in democracy - that puts the thumb on the scale. It makes permanent fascism like in Russia more likely. And it’s worth dying to avoid that permanent fate. But if it’s temporary, it just doesn’t rise to that level.