Most H1-Bs are filling jobs that pay $200k+. Most Americans don’t know but tech jobs pay between $200k-$1m, and almost all of those jobs are taken by folks on H1-B visas. Rather than sourcing and training Americans for the best paying jobs in the country, the tech industry has lobbied Congress to flood the market with labor from India and China. We can only imagine these wages would be higher without the influx of these workers. But, the wages are still high, and they would love to flood the market with even more cheap labor if they could uncap H1-Bs to further drive down wages. There are people willing to work for $60k/year just for the promise of an American visa.
Additionally, H1-B workers are easier to control. They all fear layoffs or firings because losing your job means losing your visa, if you can’t find another job within 2 months. So, there is incentive to neglect work-life balance and change the culture of a company into “996,” which means working from 9am to 9pm, 6 days a week.
And, there is widespread fraud and discrimination against American workers too. When entire departments come to be filled with people from a certain country, they tend to keep hiring people from that country. One reason for this is tech companies tend to hire from contracting agencies like WiPro, InfoSys, TCS, Cognizant, and HCL (WITCH), all of which originated in India and source from India, so they don’t focus on diversity at all (there have been lawsuits). Many of those contractors are doing jobs that should actually be filled by full time employees, but companies flagrantly ignore labor laws. When they do need to hire full time employees, they often convert these contractors. Also, many of these workers don’t have the actual qualifications for the job, so they falsify their resumes. I’ve interviewed candidates claiming 15 years of experience with a language, that cannot write a single line of code in that language when prompted. Those that can write code, don’t always follow best practices and can churn out cheap, hacky solutions that ultimately just need to be redone.
This is all an open secret in the tech industry. It isn’t more widely talked about because there are few Americans to actual witness what is going on. And, those criticizing the system risk being painted as xenophobic. It is good to see Bernie coming out against these practices because people on the right and left should be critical of it.
Most Americans don’t know but tech jobs pay between $200k-$1m
No, they do not. More like $50k-200k. But the rest of your comment is pretty much right.
Most common is $80-160k, the companies formerly known as FANNG (Facebook, Apple, Amazon, Netflix, Google) are more likely $160-340k. A large part of that is their geographic area. Basically they primarily want workers who are already vetted by the other FAANG companies, so they’re all in the same geographic location, and competing over the workers willing to live there.
Basically they’re idiots creating their own problems that Elon wants to solve with H1-Bs.
Legally, the H1-Bs need to get paid roughly the same as American workers. We all know that’s a bit slippery, but it does help keep the wages up.
The real benefit is that they either do what Elon says or they get kicked out of the country. Guess who’s willing to put up with the most shit.
Like the other commenter suggested, check levels.fyi. If you’re in a major tech hub like Silicon Valley, $300k is average, and many people are pushing $500k. Some who are in highly specialized roles, or who hit the jackpot on the timing of their equity grants can get over $1m.
The app Blind has a lot of people sharing info on this.
Levels.fyi is a good source of salary data. Above 200k is easy in the right geographic location.
Musk is wrong about pretty much everything so there is that.
Someone got all het up yesterday because I called H-1B holders indentured servants. This should be interesting.
Can we just replace all headlines about this fuckhead with “Moral person with clue says Elon Musk is wrong, again”
I have a somewhat hot take.
The racists want to destroy H1-B visas, the rich (slavers) like H1-B as is, and neither is willing to help fix H1-B visas.
Slavery is easily the worst outcome. It might be worth siding with the racists to defeat the slavers and drive a wedge in their coalition.
What the hell is he talking about? The average H1B employee has a six-digit salary.
I don’t have the data, but in HCOL areas a six digit salary doesn’t go that far. And the real point is how much downward pressure does it put on compensation for Americans who do have job mobility? How does the pay between these two population compare and change over time?
The H1B system makes it functionally impossible to change jobs, and employers can take advantage of that by depressing wages, worsening working conditions, and laying off other staff. Employers hold all the power in that relationship.
Six digits is “only” average in San Francisco, and well above average almost everywhere else. I’d say that being the average resident of an extremely expensive place to live in the USA is nowhere near “low-wage indentured servant”.
Also, H1B holders can change jobs, as long as the new job gets them a new H1B. That makes it harder for them to change jobs than it is for Americans, but many tech companies are willing to get that visa for someone talented.
Edit: They also always have the option of leaving the USA and going back to their home country. They don’t gain anything from Sanders’ proposal - they just lose the option of coming to the USA in the first place, which is an option they really want to have. What Musk is proposing is clearly better for them, so Sanders shouldn’t wrap his opposition in false claims of looking out for the poor foreigners who might get those awful American jobs unless he stops them.
I know multiple people here on H1B visas, and guess what, I left the job I was in over horrible working condition, and 6 years later, they are all still there bcz they can’t get another job willing to sponsor their visa.
My dad came to America on this visa and then got a green card. Now our whole family are citizens. If he wasn’t able to do that, I’d be sitting in a bunker somewhere in Eastern Ukraine after getting drafted
I know multiple people here on H1B visas too. They do have difficulties that Americans do not, but they would still much rather be in the USA than go back to their home countries. How would taking away that option to be in the USA (which they really want) help these people?
Who said anything about taking it away? They point is that the comment about it being borderline indentured servitude is accurate.
If Sanders gets his way and denies H1B visas to people who would have gotten them under Musk’s proposal, then Sanders is taking away the option of coming to the USA that those people would have had. That’s (1) an option no one is forcing them to take, (2) an option that they really want, and (3) an option that they can change their mind about at any time. An indentured servant is someone who doesn’t have the option of leaving. You can’t make someone indentured by giving them more options.
Surely you would support expanding the H1B so that it’s easier for H1B workers to change jobs then, right? Let them come, but also nuetralize any options for corporations to abuse the H1B system. Sounds like a reasonable compromise to me.
Imagine what it would be like without the flood of labor from abroad. Those jobs could pay $1 million/year and be filled by Americans.
Now imagine if they uncap H1-Bs, the market will totally flood and wages will easily drop to five-digits.
And can be forced to work 80+ hours a week or face deportation…
Not true and even if it were that’s not a whole lot of money in large cities where it would be happening
